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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
If involved in a self defense shooting everyone really needs to understand that the less said the better. even if you are 100% in the right, dont be fooled into answering any questions.

"I was in fear for my life as this person attacked me, I will sign a complaint. I intend to cooperate completely in 24 hours after I have had time to consult with my attorney
, and I would like to go to the hospital"

UAPDI - What to Do After a Self-defense Shooting

Also, please read Article 35 in full, highlight parts that stand out, and re read it..

Article 35 - New York State Penal Law - Defense of Justification




I editted the statement about speaking to the police after reading some comments. and please keep in mind that I am not an attorney, this is only information I am sharing that I have learned myself from reading.

I think everyone who carries a firearm for self protection should have a lawyer on speed dial, and consult with them about how you should handle a situation.

it does no one any good to try and find an attorney AFTER you have already been involved in a possible self defense situation. be smart, be prepared, get the information before you get in trouble.
 

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I 100% agree whether you are a citizen, LEO, defense contractor, MP, etc.... Less is more until representation arrives. Attorney, union delegate, etc.
 

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You will be searched lol i have heard once your scene is secure place your hands on your head weapon on the ground and wait(only if your scene is safe). Then consult an attorney before makig statments
 

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State that you were in fear for your life, you and your attorney will give a statement within 24 hours, and then ask to go to the hospital. The police are supposed to stop all questioning once you have made that request and any statements given after a request for medical exam may be considered under duress and therefore inadmissible.
 

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I have to disagree that the single line above is all one should say. While generally speaking, most people will HURT their cause, if one is in the right, there is certain information that should be told to the police to back up your cause, especially if there are uninvolved witnesses who will talk and will likely say something different than you. It is amazing just how different 2,3 or 4 people can describe an incident after the fact. If you the shooter say "I'm not talking now." before being carted off the hospital (that I fully recommend), the police are going to spend the next few hours investigating the scene going off of the statements of witnesses alone. Odds are, you don't want that.

It is a sticky situation because most people don't know how to defend their own case. They'll say things that they shouldn't. But the alternative of saying nothing whatsoever is just as much of a bad thing unless you know that you messed up. At that point, definitely don't say a word! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
good points guys... and I editted my first post ABG because you reminded me of other things I have read. Ive read also that you should say

"I was attacked and in fear for my life, and I will sign a complaint" but after that you need to say,


" I will cooperate fully in 24 hours after I have consulted with my attorney, and I would like to go to the hospital".

And as stated, IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and this is information Ive read over the years... the website I posted is just one website, and there are plenty of others that people should read to inform themselves.
 

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good points guys... and I editted my first post ABG because you reminded me of other things I have read. Ive read also that you should say

"I was attacked and in fear for my life, and I will sign a complaint" but after that you need to say,

" I will cooperate fully in 24 hours after I have consulted with my attorney, and I would like to go to the hospital".

And as stated, IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and this is information Ive read over the years... the website I posted is just one website, and there are plenty of others that people should read to inform themselves.
This is consistent with the information received during a defensive pistol class I took from Rochester Personal Defense. One thing they mentioned was the unreliability of eyewitness testimony - i.e. different people will claim to have seen different things. On the other hand, they said "ear-witness" testimony was generally more consistent. They recommended that in a shooting situation yell things like "STOP!" or "Call 911!" The theory is if there are a number of witnesses that can testify to hearing those comments this puts you in a much better position in terms of establishing a defense. People who yell "call 911" are generally considered to be in a defensive, law abiding mindset. Criminals don't ask people to call 911.

BTW, I highly recommend one of the defensive pistol classes from Rochester Personal Defense.
 

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One thing they mentioned was the unreliability of eyewitness testimony - i.e. different people will claim to have seen different things.
I really can't stress this enough. It happens to everyone, even those who have experience in stressful, violent situations. Two cops or two soldiers will see remember the firefight or shooting they just experienced from totally different perspectives, real and imagined.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
good points, and the commands such as shouting "STOP" were also discussed during my class with MDTS.

I strongly recommend that anyone who carries a firearm take classes with whatever organization is in your area. I only have experience with MDTS, but I was highly impressed with how Chris ran his course, and Im taking the next level class with him in Sept. And I expect to take at least 2 courses a year going forward.

Every responsible gun owner owes it to themselves to take a class. What you learn in one class is more than you can teach yourself in years.
 

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good points, and the commands such as shouting "STOP" were also discussed during my class with MDTS.

I strongly recommend that anyone who carries a firearm take classes with whatever organization is in your area. I only have experience with MDTS, but I was highly impressed with how Chris ran his course, and Im taking the next level class with him in Sept. And I expect to take at least 2 courses a year going forward.

Every responsible gun owner owes it to themselves to take a class. What you learn in one class is more than you can teach yourself in years.
Good recommendation Celt!!

I have taken a number of courses from MDTS in defensive pistol, carbine and edge weapons, from early on. Chris is a consummate teacher, a true professional, and is never afraid to adapt and/or adopt new techniques and ideas into his syllabus. The sections on "Managing Unknown Contacts" and Mindset are essential to your development as a responsible, aware individual who is really able to defend yourself, loved ones or even strangers, if need be.

Also, his association with others in the training community bring other courses into the area - in particular Southnarc's ECQC and classes conducted by PFC Training, with whom he is also an instructor.

TRAIN!! EAT!! SLEEP!! REPEAT!!
 

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I'm pretty sure Massad Ayoob was the one who first advised giving the statement "I was in fear for my life, he had a weapon, and I want an Attorney before answering any more questions."
In The Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal ProtectionISBN 978-0-936279-00-81980
 

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Make no mistake, YOU HAVE TO INVOKE your right to remain silent. Salinas v. Texas
From the plurality opinion, written by Justice Samuel Alito:

"Petitioner [Salinas] cannot benefit from that principle because it is undisputed that his interview with police was voluntary. As petitioner himself acknowledges, he agreed to accompany the officers to the station and 'was free to leave at any time during the interview.' Brief for Petitioner 2 - 3 (internal quotation marks omitted). That places petitioner's situation outside the scope of Miranda and other cases in which we have held that various forms of governmental coercion prevented defendants from voluntarily invoking the privilege."

Article 35 - New York State Penal Law - Defense of Justification
S 35.05 Justification; generally.

§2 " Whenever evidence relating to the defense of justification under this subdivisionis offered by the defendant, the court shall rule as a matter of law
whether the claimed facts and circumstances would, if established,
constitute a defense."

According to NY Law you will be taken into custody for your justifiable shooting, and the court will determine if it was justified or not. So, running your mouth just after a life altering experience (defensive shooting) what you say without a lawyer present might sound good to you, but damaging as well.

So PLEASE get yourself an attorney before you start carrying, there are some good ones posted here;
http://nyfirearms.com/forums/laws-politics/11871-ny-pro-firearm-attorney-list.html
put their name and phone number in with your permit so you have it.
 

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If involved in a self defense shooting everyone really needs to understand that the less said the better. even if you are 100% in the right, dont be fooled into answering any questions.

"I was in fear for my life as this person attacked me, I will sign a complaint. I intend to cooperate completely in 24 hours after I have had time to consult with my attorney
, and I would like to go to the hospital"

UAPDI - What to Do After a Self-defense Shooting

Also, please read Article 35 in full, highlight parts that stand out, and re read it..

Article 35 - New York State Penal Law - Defense of Justification




I editted the statement about speaking to the police after reading some comments. and please keep in mind that I am not an attorney, this is only information I am sharing that I have learned myself from reading.

I think everyone who carries a firearm for self protection should have a lawyer on speed dial, and consult with them about how you should handle a situation.

it does no one any good to try and find an attorney AFTER you have already been involved in a possible self defense situation. be smart, be prepared, get the information before you get in trouble.
Without doubt, this is sound advise for not only a shooting action, but in any other interaction with Law Enforcement: when they're digging into your life, they are NOT your friend. Remember the old moral: Not everyone that gets you out of the schitt is your friend, not everyone that schitts on you is your enemy.
 

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I agree with OP's sentiment but would further it by saying the proper response to police in a self-defense shooting is: NOTHING.

I actually was thinking of posting this video again today. It's received 4M views and even though it's 50 minutes long I strongly recommend people listen to it (you can work and run it in the background). The guy brings up a nice example of when you're 100% innocent and 100% honest and can still gets screwed over if you talk.

Don't say anything without a lawyer. Don't get strong armed into saying anything. I know it's easier said than done, but this applies always. Anything more serious than a speeding ticket and you shouldn't say anything:

Watch this video:


As mentioned in this thread, though, remaining silent may not be enough: you need to repeatedly say you're invoking your right to remain silent. Be explicit about invoking it. And there's no need to be belligerent, but respectfully say you were taught to never speak to police without a lawyer present.
 

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Thanks for posting up Celt! Great discussion topic.

A lot of what is mentioned above is in the attached videos (and likely drawn from them directly).

In my wallet I have Mas' 5 steps:

1. Establish the dynamic of the situation - who is the victim, that you were in fear for your life.
2. Indicate that you will sign a criminal complaint
3. Point out evidence
4. Point out witnesses
5. Stop answering questions at that point. Invoke 5th and request your attorney.


 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
androo, i have watched both of those videos in their entirety before in the past. And when ABG made his first response in this thread it reminded me of these videos and additional things that are important to say prior to invoking your 5th, and requesting to go to the hospital.
 

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One other thing that might have been mentioned above - knowing how to handle this situation requires the same amount of practice that the act of defending yourself does.

This is critical information for anyone who uses a firearm (or any other deadly weapon) for home defense.
 

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androo, i have watched both of those videos in their entirety before in the past. And when ABG made his first response in this thread it reminded me of these videos and additional things that are important to say prior to invoking your 5th, and requesting to go to the hospital.
I just added the request to go to the hospital to my list!
 

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SAY NOTHING LAWYER UP

 
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