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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to transfer two of my pistols to my sister. I know with the unSafe Act that all transfers must be through a dealer unless it is an immediate family member. My question is, can her and I just go the Sheriff's Department and transfer them or do we have to go to a dealer? I am located in Dutchess County.
 

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I would think that an FFL would have to take possession of them until your sister receives her amendments to her own permit.
 

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As long as your county is fine with adhering to the background rules all you have to do is write up a notarized receipt between the two of you and she submits the receipt for her amendments. When she gets them she gives them to you and then you give her the pistol then you pull the guns off your permit. No dealer is needed for direct family transfer as long as she lives in the state.
 

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call your county office but I'l wager a transfer to your sister will not require a FFL unless they claim she is not "immediate" family......and if not...who is...lol
 

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I just checked... Siblings are not considered immediate family under the UNSAFE...
Yes, I think it was just descendants that were exempt, only sons or daughters. I remember that I wanted to give a firearm to a brother last year, but for the life of me I can't remember how I handled it.
 

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IV. PRIVATE SALES
The Safe Act extended the requirement of a NICS check (National Instant Criminal Background Check System), which was previously limited to commercial weapons sales, to private sales through a new Article 39-DDD of the General Business Law (GBL).
1. General Business Law Article 39-DDD
GBL Article 39- DDD requires that all private sales of firearms, rifles or shotguns be conducted through a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer. Before any private sales may be made, a NICS check must be conducted by a dealer on the purchaser. While a dealer is not required to facilitate a private sale, if a dealer chooses to do so, he or she must create and maintain records relating to private sales to prove that the background checks were conducted. These records may be inspected by a police officer and are not subject to public disclosure under the FOIL provisions. The Safe Act provides that a dealer may charge up to $10 for facilitating these private transactions.
2. Immediate Family Exemption
There is an exception to the requirement of a background check for transfers of weapons between immediate family members. The term “immediate family members” is limited by statute to:
• Spouses
• Domestic Partners
• Children
• Step-children
3.
Section 4 defines family members. It's on page 11.
 

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Permit to possess is 110% unconstitutional.
 

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Like anything else in the state laws change with a pencil eraser. This state is total BS, if your up my way I will transfer them for free for you just because of the insanity that you can't have siblings transfer this week but maybe next week depending on what the sky looks like.
 

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Are you fully transferring them or what about joint ownership. I know a guy I work with just put his pistols on his sisters permit as well as his sons. all 3 can possess the pistols know.
 

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OP - The easiest way for you to accomplish what you're looking to do is to first go for co-ownership of the firearms. Depending on your personal situation(s) you may want to keep it this way. If you opt for co-ownership, simply write a letter to the DC Sheriff's Office.
Ex. - Sirs, Please allow my sister, Jane Doe, to co-own the following firearms that are currently on my pistol permit. List the firearms by make, model, type, caliber, and serial number as shown on your permit. Include a photocopy of both your permits (both on one page is fine) and a check for $11 payable to DCSO ($5 for your sisters new permit and $3 for each handgun to be added to her permit). No notarization needed. If you decide in the future that you don't want to co-own these firearms with her, you can dispose of them to her by using the standard PPB-5 permit amendment form (note that the form was updated 06/14). By going the co-ownership route you can accomplish what you want without any FFL fees and / or intervention.
You could try a simple bill of sale to accomplish this right up front but I can't tell you that it will fly at this time. It has post SafeAct in DC, not sure if it will now.
 

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We are going to do joint ownership of the pistols. Problem solved. Thanks guys!
How has the transfer question been addressed? The legal ownership, registration on a license and transfer of possession are all different legal issues. With regard to GBS 39-DDD a transfer to your sister, even if she has the firearm amended to her license is still a violation of that law.

I am not saying that a law that makes a transfer of a firearm that is already registered to two individuals on a license illegal makes any sense, the law really is that stupid. Plenty of people behind bars right now for violating stupid or immoral laws though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How has the transfer question been addressed? The legal ownership, registration on a license and transfer of possession are all different legal issues. With regard to GBS 39-DDD a transfer to your sister, even if she has the firearm amended to her license is still a violation of that law.

I am not saying that a law that makes a transfer of a firearm that is already registered to two individuals on a license illegal makes any sense, the law really is that stupid. Plenty of people behind bars right now for violating stupid or immoral laws though.
The co-ownership is a county law and isn't an actual transfer. Our Sheriff (who is very pro gun) does this so that the handguns are not in some gray area if somebody passes away. It has been been done post Unsafe and is legal.
 

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The co-ownership is a county law and isn't an actual transfer. Our Sheriff (who is very pro gun) does this so that the handguns are not in some gray area if somebody passes away. It has been been done post Unsafe and is legal.
If it is legal, explain how any transfer of *possession* of a handgun between siblings is exempt from GBS 39-DDD.

Maybe I was not clear - ownership is one legal issue (and not really important), registration is another (having the firearm on your NY firearm license) and physical possession is a third and completely separate issue. GBS 39-DDD only deals with *physical* transfers of possession.

It is completely up to the discretion of the licensing agent to determine which firearms can go on which licenses. For most counties, this function is delegated to the sheriff by the county judge(s). Just because the county has amended the permits of multiple people to legally possess a specific firearm does not mean that they are not *also* required to transfer physical possession under GBS 39-DDD.

I do not think it really matters, since the sheriff apparently is willing to use discretion to not enforce that law (which is a good thing overall), but that situation may not apply statewide.

What is legal and what you will be arrested for are not the same things - they can vary based on where you live.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If it is legal, explain how any transfer of *possession* of a handgun between siblings is exempt from GBS 39-DDD.

Maybe I was not clear - ownership is one legal issue (and not really important), registration is another (having the firearm on your NY firearm license) and physical possession is a third and completely separate issue. GBS 39-DDD only deals with *physical* transfers of possession.

It is completely up to the discretion of the licensing agent to determine which firearms can go on which licenses. For most counties, this function is delegated to the sheriff by the county judge(s). Just because the county has amended the permits of multiple people to legally possess a specific firearm does not mean that they are not *also* required to transfer physical possession under GBS 39-DDD.

I do not think it really matters, since the sheriff apparently is willing to use discretion to not enforce that law (which is a good thing overall), but that situation may not apply statewide.

What is legal and what you will be arrested for are not the same things - they can vary based on where you live.
We aren't transferring anything. It is pretty much me giving her permission to posess and handle my pistols. No transfer is taking place at all. They are staying on my permit.

The counties have discretion on numerous things with pistol permits. Our county is a "shall issue" county. They also allow pistols to be on more than one permit while a lot of other counties don't.
 

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What he ^ said. There is no sale, exchange, disposal, or transfer taking place. The local permitting authority is simply allowing for co-ownership of the firearm(s) just as you might co-register a vehicle through the DMV.
With new handgun purchases it becomes quite efficient. Instead of John/Jane Doe purchasing a handgun, waiting for the amendment, and then applying for co-ownership with his/her spouse and waiting again, the FFL makes out the bill of sale that is provided to the permitting authority to John + Jane Doe (or it could be John, Jane, and Jack Doe if perhaps a child in the household also has a permit). The two (or three) permittees can receive their amendments at the same time. Happens quite often...
 

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The co-ownership is a county law and isn't an actual transfer. Our Sheriff (who is very pro gun) does this so that the handguns are not in some gray area if somebody passes away. It has been been done post Unsafe and is legal.
^ this. Pinkpanther is absolutely correct. Also keep in mind that some Counties forbid co-registration of pistols. Some limit co-registration to immediate family members living in the same household (this is the case with my County, Niagara). Registration policies vary by county so always check with your local pistol licensing office before deciding on a course of action.
 
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