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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
IMO, the downfall of all of our rights will be because of the division of the GOP between the traditional GOP and the split faction of the Tea Party. All this does is split the GOP vote and strengthens the Dems votes. We can never win to preserve (or regain) our rights if we can't agree on one party. What a shame. Again, JMO

Tea Party Super PAC predicts a "bar room brawl" inside GOP in 2014
 

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I have been a loyal R all my life, I have degrees in political science and economics and I am a political junkie - and I am convinced that the Tea Party vs. traditional GOP fight is absolutely necessary. The GOP has lost all sense of its principles and proper mission. It places its own power above liberty and constitutionalism. It needs a cleansing and the Tea Party is, at least, a reasonable effort at that. I am optimistic that the fight will be productive however in the long run - it is seeding the GOP with energetic, young talent that will reinvigorate the party. No young, fresh GOPer is throwing their hat into the ring today and saying "I want to be just like John McCain!' In time, the McCains will have less influence and a party led by Reaganites/Tea Partiers/Libertarians will be MORE staunch in protecting the 2A and better at winning over the millions of new gun owners.
 

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Libertarian republicanism is the way to go. I will never vote for someone who attempts to legislate morality. I want Fiscal Intelligence and personal freedom, and personal resonsibillity.... not just the freedoms that you decide are ok or that you agree with.
 

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couldnt agree anymore there jmo371. im 25 and i believe the work or die ideology needs to come back also the idea of life liberty and the persuit of happyness also needs to come back as well. everybody needs to be able to do what they need to do to live free in this country and it needs to say that way.
 

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gotta agree with NYG and JMO. Thats basically how I see it. I support the Tea Party, and I feel that they represent me better than the old school GOP. While I really dislike splitting the party because it certainly gives the leftists an advantage (the left have won many elections this way because they never split themselves up), if the movement is strong enough (which it sounds like it is) then perhaps its time to make that change. I hope the tea party is successful in taking control of the GOP.
 

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I have been a loyal R all my life, I have degrees in political science and economics and I am a political junkie - and I am convinced that the Tea Party vs. traditional GOP fight is absolutely necessary. The GOP has lost all sense of its principles and proper mission. It places its own power above liberty and constitutionalism. It needs a cleansing and the Tea Party is, at least, a reasonable effort at that. I am optimistic that the fight will be productive however in the long run - it is seeding the GOP with energetic, young talent that will reinvigorate the party. No young, fresh GOPer is throwing their hat into the ring today and saying "I want to be just like John McCain!' In time, the McCains will have less influence and a party led by Reaganites/Tea Partiers/Libertarians will be MORE staunch in protecting the 2A and better at winning over the millions of new gun owners.
This times a million. Well said!
 

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Gotta go for the new Libertarian movement within the GOP. The old GOP is like the Democrats of the 90's. We have too many wimps in the GOP. I'm sick of all the McCains, McConnells, Grahams and Boehners. We need people with spines. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee seem to be the best hope for the Republican Party.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I wouldn't have a problem with the TP if that was the 2nd majority of a party. The problem, exclusively, is the split. With the Dems solidarity it only affords them strength when the 'other' party (whatever party that is) stays divided. Hate to coin the phrase, but united we stand, divided we fall. So regardless of the GOP or TP philosophies, how can either win when they don't unite? I just see it as an unwinnable divide.
 

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Libertarian all the way. Gary Johnson got %5 of the vote in some states in 2012...maybe in 2016 it's 10-15%, maybe more. I'm of a mind that if enough people get upset, sooner or later the two party system becomes a THREE party system and I think THAT is a good thing.
 

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Just remember....the Dems have overreached in their zeal to control people's lives as much as the old Republican Guard did (just in a different way).
Many Democrats will be looking for an alternative next November, depending on what candidate the Dems put up.
the last thing the GOP should do is put up someone who is rabid about what adults do in their personal lives. focus on our Rights, on fiscal responsibility, on regaining our honor in the eyes of the rest of the world, and you will see a LOT of Dems cross the line.
 

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Yeah, the libs will play it up to to make the divide every election. That is how Obama was elected and re-elected and we lost a number of easy elections because the vote was split or people stayed home. I am more libertarian than anything, but I am not a fool either. If I agree 70% with a candidate, that trumps 20% that I might have with a Lib. If you don't get elected you can't change anything. The libs will play up any divide by parading out everybody that could cause a vote split, until after they win the primary, and then they will unload on them.
 

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The rank-and-file establishment GOP now seems to stand for nothing more than simply keeping themselves in office. They run on promises to act and vote more conservative, but once back inside the Beltway they revert to their true form...simply marking time before their next election.

The current Republican party has:

  • Shunned Conservative values (limited government and a return to constitutional federalism)
  • Allowed deficit spending to grow out of control (Yes, under the G.W. Bush administration, too)
  • Refused explain to our, albeit vastly uneducated, electorate that our ever-rising debt will eventually collapse our economy if we don't "balance our national checkbook"
  • Kowtowed to those who believe that the Republican party needs to be more "moderate" (You know...'Democrat Lite')
  • Refused to take a real stand opposing any immigration reforms until our current borders are secured and our current laws are upheld.
  • Refused to stand up to a President that has breached the separation of powers and essentially rewritten legislation via executive orders.
  • Refused to stand up to a President that has acted unconstitutionally by making recess appointments to the NLRB when HE declared Congress to be in recess.
  • Refused to back Conservatives that were actively trying to have the Affordable (Ha!) Care Act defunded
  • Been unable to explain to the nation that it was the Democrats that "shut down" the government when the Republicans had passed legislation to fund EVERYTHING except the ACA.
  • Found itself impotent when a Democrat Secretary of State told a Congressional panel, "...what does it matter?" with regards to the reasons behind why an American mission in Benghazi was insecure, attacked, and had the ambassador murdered.
  • Been unable to explain to the American public that someone in THIS ADMINISTRATION gave some kind of stand-down order to prevent American forces from assisting in Benghazi.
  • Repeatedly surrendered in advance of negotiations with the Democrats on many issues.
  • Refused to back Conservatives in their races believing that the Tea Party is more of a threat to the GOP than are the Democrats (ex/ Virginia governor's race with Ken Cuccinelli)
  • Called out true Conservatives as "wackos"

Therefore, there is, and should be, a war for the control of the GOP levers of power. The current establishment MUST be defeated if the country is to be saved.

For those who consider themselves Conservatives, the GOP has already left us. It is time to take the party back.
 

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United we stand divided we fall?

The problem is here is that the Republican Party is experiencing a break between what the party SAYS it is and what it ACTUALLY is. If you can't see that you haven't opened your eyes yet.

The establishment GOP is interested in POWER the same way the Democrats are. The small group of upcoming "extremists" are only practicing what the party preaches and it is upsetting to those who just want to play ball. This fight has been hashed out on these forums before and it always leads to the same fight, either you believe in standing on principle or you believe in playing ball.

This struggle is absolutely necessary to the country. You are seeing the beginning of an uprising by real constitutionalists against the corporate cronyism that has infiltrated our government and country.

You can play ball all you want, but don't expect to get anywhere doing it.
 

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BUT-1st we have to get a non-dem elected.Even if we get a POS like christy(worst case scenerio) as our only shot,it's better than another dem.I could handle ryan as a better choice(still not what i want but better than christy-but ONLY if he could WIN).
 

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I wouldn't have a problem with the TP if that was the 2nd majority of a party. The problem, exclusively, is the split. With the Dems solidarity it only affords them strength when the 'other' party (whatever party that is) stays divided. Hate to coin the phrase, but united we stand, divided we fall. So regardless of the GOP or TP philosophies, how can either win when they don't unite? I just see it as an unwinnable divide.
At large I agree with this, and I am very concerned that a 3rd party will only leave us with another leftist in office and this would be disasterous, thats why as much as I dislike the 2 party system its been the only way to keep the socialists from completely transforming this country and having their way with anything they propose.

but, if the Tea Party can take control of the GOP before the election and gain the support they need before election time, then the GOP will have no choice but to stand behind THEM. This is what Im hoping will happen, and this I would fully support. If they are simply going to wait for election time to throw in a third candidate that splits people who are center/right it could leave us stuck with hitlery in 2016 and thats not something I even want to think about.
 

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Up until recently I believed in a win is a win, and go for it holding my nose. That's no longer the case, I've had enough, I'm voting TP-Libertarian and going down with the ship if necessary. Paul Ryan calls himself a Conservative? That's a joke, the dems pulled the wool over his head. Instead of heading towards fiscal ruin on the express train, he decided to take the local, to exactly the same stop.
 

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People need to keep in mind that the "Tea" Party is actually the T.E.A. Party. And...it isn't really a true political party. It stands for (T)axed (E)nough (A)lready. The only common thread between the various Tea "Party" organizations is a belief in sensible fiscal policy and a smaller central government. There is no national Tea Party platform and thus no national Tea Party emphasis on any social issues.
 

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Up until recently I believed in a win is a win, and go for it holding my nose. That's no longer the case, I've had enough, I'm voting TP-Libertarian and going down with the ship if necessary. Paul Ryan calls himself a Conservative? That's a joke, the dems pulled the wool over his head. Instead of heading towards fiscal ruin on the express train, he decided to take the local, to exactly the same stop.
Welcome to the club! Flaming and bashing await you!
 
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