[kflo01]

Quick question (I think this has been touched on once before here)

If I purchased a pistol from another forum member here. Is it legal for him to ship it DIRECTLY to me once I get the green form from my county clerks office and the gun has offically been added to my permit? I mean who wants to pay a 40.00 FFL transfer fee if they dont have to?

If that is not legal then I know its would have to go to my FFL etc etc.


Thanks guys.

 

[Rubline]

Pistols have to go through an FFL, Long guns don't if it is within NY

 

[HEX]

Rubline is correct. The pistol must be shipped to your FFL.

 

[guygus3516]

really a dumb law, you can't get a coupon unless you turn in the correct amendmend paperwork with receipts, etc

 

[Mike_in_MD]

What is the FFL supposed to do? NY can't require them to process a 4473. The FFL can't really provide a receipt for the permit department since they are not the seller of the handgun.



I guess I left NY at the right time.

 

[sr20sean]

Why does it need an FFL?
Seller gets the purchase coupon, buyer has it on his permit, can't it be shipped directly? But I believe I read somewhere that it needs to be shipped overnight or express.

 

[RayKnobs]

Pretty sure you can do a face to face pistol sale right?

 

[Les]

I don't believe this is a NY law issue, this is a federal law issue if I read this right. Here is a quote from Gunbroker's site about shipping.

"Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale)."

 

[Ralph]

I always just process it through a FFL. It's getting registered anyway, so may as well have a record of it being done right.

 

[eagleridge357]

I always just process it through a FFL. It's getting registered anyway, so may as well have a record of it being done right.

Les and Ralph have got it right.......follow the rules and you can rest assured.

 

[kflo01]

Ok thanks guys

 

[RayKnobs]

I don't believe this is a NY law issue, this is a federal law issue if I read this right. Here is a quote from Gunbroker's site about shipping.

I think gunbroker took a few liberties when they simplified the interpretation of federal law.

 

[urjustamemory]

Les and Ralph have got it right.......follow the rules and you can rest assured.

Agreed. The few rifles I have put for sale here, I make it known FFL only, I'd even pay shipping from mine to their FFL... I'd still get PM's saying its legal to ship to them. I'm sorry but I want to know that 1) the person I sell it to, can own it 2) My name is not the last registered

 

[Mike_in_MD]

I think gunbroker took a few liberties when they simplified the interpretation of federal law.

You think??

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

 

[Heuy]

The OP, it appears, would like to do a face to face sale through the mail. Nice try, but no.

I think gunbroker took a few liberties when they simplified the interpretation of federal law.

Gunbroker did not take any liberties. A non licensee can ship a handgun, but it must be sent to a FFL. A non license cannot ship via the USPS, they must use a common carrier and pay overnight fees.
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

What is the FFL supposed to do? NY can't require them to process a 4473. The FFL can't really provide a receipt for the permit department since they are not the seller of the handgun.

The FFL receives the handgun and does provide a "receipt" for the person to take to the licensing office to have the handgun added to their permit. A NICS check (4473) is required.

 

[Mike_in_MD]

Agreed. The few rifles I have put for sale here, I make it known FFL only, I'd even pay shipping from mine to their FFL... I'd still get PM's saying its legal to ship to them. I'm sorry but I want to know that 1) the person I sell it to, can own it 2) My name is not the last registered

How long have you owned the firearms? Remember, after 20 years the selling FFL can destroy the 4473's.

Have you ever sold a gun FTF to someone at your local shooting club? If so, how do you really know that person is legal to own a gun?

 

[Mike_in_MD]

The OP, it appears, would like to do a face to face sale through the mail. Nice try, but no.

Gunbroker did not take any liberties. A non licensee can ship a handgun, but it must be sent to a FFL. A non license cannot ship via the USPS, they must use a common carrier and pay overnight fees.
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

The FFL receives the handgun and does provide a "receipt" for the person to take to the licensing office to have the handgun added to their permit. A NICS check (4473) is required.

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

ATF says FIREARM, not rifle or shotgun. No NICS is needed. No interstate transfer has occurred.

 

[Heuy]

ATF says FIREARM, not rifle or shotgun. No NICS is needed. No interstate transfer has occurred.

Whether an interstate transfer has or has not occurred has nothing to do with it. If an FFL transfers a firearm to someone other than the person from whom he received it (for repair, gunsmithing, etc.) a NICS check is required. That the firearm was received from someone in the same state means nothing. The transaction is the same as if the firearm was received from any other state. NICS required.

 

[RayKnobs]

Heuy,
Are you saying that a non licensee (seller) can not ship a rifle to another non licensee (buyer) in the same state?

ATF FAQ

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

 

[sr20sean]

Pretty sure you can do a face to face pistol sale right?

You can which is what makes no sense. When you go to add the pistol to your permit they do a quick background check on you right then and there.

FTF would be:
1) pay for pistol
2) bring receipt to Sheriff's office for amendment
3) get purchase coupon
4) give to seller
5) bring pistol home

Why wouldn't you be able to ship it directly to the buyer as long as the seller has the purchase coupon in their possession prior to shipping? It would already be on the buyer's permit and ATF doesn't prohibit shipping of a firearm intrastate.