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Need some clarification here. The crap act ammo background check is still written in the crap act but suspended, so no local vendors have done background checks..business as usual. ALOT of out of state vendors will not ship but a few still do. My FFL holder type guy claims if I get a shipment from out of state; it is an illegal shipment.(for whatever that means) I don't understand the logic behind his statement. (NY city is not included in this discussion as they have their own separate issues)

So...is it or is it not a legal shipment. Plus what they don't know can't hurt me but I'm not looking for that.
 

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Here is a message that I recently sent to Freedom Munitions to try and explain the situation here in New York after they decided to only ship orders to New York FFLs. (By the way, my effort was not successful.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see from my account, I've placed, and received, several recent orders from Freedom Munitions.

You may not be aware, but the provisions of the New York SAFE Act that mandate an in-person ammunition transaction are not currently in effect:

The New York SAFE Act text states:
Bills

7. NO COMMERCIAL TRANSFER OF AMMUNITION SHALL TAKE PLACE UNLESS A
15 LICENSED DEALER IN FIREARMS OR REGISTERED SELLER OF AMMUNITION ACTS AS
16 AN INTERMEDIARY BETWEEN THE TRANSFEROR AND THE ULTIMATE TRANSFEREE OF
17 THE AMMUNITION FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONTACTING THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND
18 RECORD DATABASE PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. SUCH TRANSFER BETWEEN THE
19 DEALER OR SELLER, AND TRANSFEREE MUST OCCUR IN PERSON.

Since the "statewide license and record database" is not operational, the "purpose" for the "in person" transfer of ammunition is not legally in effect...despite memos from the NYSP (which have no force of law and are merely their interpretation - https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/d...etterfromNewYorkStatePoliceSuperintendent.pdf).

This is on the New York Governor's site:
____________________

https://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/ammunition

Q: Is there any background check now required for purchasers of ammunition?

A: Not yet. The SAFE Act provides that background check and record keeping requirements imposed on all retail sellers of ammunition are scheduled to take effect 30 days after the Superintendent of the New York State Police certifies that a statewide license and record database is operational for such a process. That certification has not yet been made as the system is being developed. Therefore, there is no set start date for that element of the law to begin. All sellers of ammunition will receive advance notice before the certification is made in order to ensure a smooth process.


Q: Do sellers of ammunition have to keep records on the sale of ammunition?

A: Not yet. Sellers of ammunition will not be required to keep records associated with the sale of ammunition or run background checks until the database has been certified as operational for such purposes. All sellers of ammunition will receive advance notice before the certification is made in order to ensure a smooth process.

_____________________

I refuse to yield to the unconstitutional actions of my state legislators and go through an FFL to receive ammunition. I will continue to patronize vendors that will ship to New York and stores in adjacent states that do not need to comply with New York State legislation.

I like your products and I would like to continue to do business with Freedom Munitions. However, if you do not wish to legally ship ammunition directly to me, as you have done in the recent past, then I wish to cancel my order.
 

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My FFL holder type guy claims if I get a shipment from out of state; it is an illegal shipment.(for whatever that means) I don't understand the logic behind his statement.
No, it is not an illegal shipment at all.

The ammo background check database is NOT OPERATIONAL. Therefore, the reason for the in-person transaction is not in effect (according to the the unSAFE Act itself).
 

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Need some clarification here. The crap act ammo background check is still written in the crap act but suspended, so no local vendors have done background checks..business as usual. ALOT of out of state vendors will not ship but a few still do. My FFL holder type guy claims if I get a shipment from out of state; it is an illegal shipment.(for whatever that means) I don't understand the logic behind his statement. (NY city is not included in this discussion as they have their own separate issues)

So...is it or is it not a legal shipment. Plus what they don't know can't hurt me but I'm not looking for that.
What he is tryin to do is put the fear in you so you buy through him instead of online.

guess i love illegal things
 

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Here is a message that I recently sent to Freedom Munitions to try and explain the situation here in New York after they decided to only ship orders to New York FFLs. (By the way, my effort was not successful.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see from my account, I've placed, and received, several recent orders from Freedom Munitions.

You may not be aware, but the provisions of the New York SAFE Act that mandate an in-person ammunition transaction are not currently in effect:

The New York SAFE Act text states:
Bills

7. NO COMMERCIAL TRANSFER OF AMMUNITION SHALL TAKE PLACE UNLESS A
15 LICENSED DEALER IN FIREARMS OR REGISTERED SELLER OF AMMUNITION ACTS AS
16 AN INTERMEDIARY BETWEEN THE TRANSFEROR AND THE ULTIMATE TRANSFEREE OF
17 THE AMMUNITION FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONTACTING THE STATEWIDE LICENSE AND
18 RECORD DATABASE PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION. SUCH TRANSFER BETWEEN THE
19 DEALER OR SELLER, AND TRANSFEREE MUST OCCUR IN PERSON.

Since the "statewide license and record database" is not operational, the "purpose" for the "in person" transfer of ammunition is not legally in effect...despite memos from the NYSP (which have no force of law and are merely their interpretation - https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/d...etterfromNewYorkStatePoliceSuperintendent.pdf).

This is on the New York Governor's site:
____________________

https://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/ammunition

Q: Is there any background check now required for purchasers of ammunition?

A: Not yet. The SAFE Act provides that background check and record keeping requirements imposed on all retail sellers of ammunition are scheduled to take effect 30 days after the Superintendent of the New York State Police certifies that a statewide license and record database is operational for such a process. That certification has not yet been made as the system is being developed. Therefore, there is no set start date for that element of the law to begin. All sellers of ammunition will receive advance notice before the certification is made in order to ensure a smooth process.


Q: Do sellers of ammunition have to keep records on the sale of ammunition?

A: Not yet. Sellers of ammunition will not be required to keep records associated with the sale of ammunition or run background checks until the database has been certified as operational for such purposes. All sellers of ammunition will receive advance notice before the certification is made in order to ensure a smooth process.

_____________________

I refuse to yield to the unconstitutional actions of my state legislators and go through an FFL to receive ammunition. I will continue to patronize vendors that will ship to New York and stores in adjacent states that do not need to comply with New York State legislation.

I like your products and I would like to continue to do business with Freedom Munitions. However, if you do not wish to legally ship ammunition directly to me, as you have done in the recent past, then I wish to cancel my order.
Not anymore.
 

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I take as you paid for ammo from a state where this nonsense does not exist. After your money was paid it became your ammo. They are then sending your ammo into nys. Having your ammo sent to you is legal even if they do get this crap operating.
 

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Who is still shipping ammo? Specifically those with .22 in stock .:)
 

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If ya recall a few threads away...we dont put out the names of places still shipping to NY..cause the moles are hiding..TargetSporWho?
 

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I take as you paid for ammo from a state where this nonsense does not exist. After your money was paid it became your ammo. They are then sending your ammo into nys. Having your ammo sent to you is legal even if they do get this crap operating.
Not according to Judge SCROTny...
 

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I understand that it is a seller's right not to ship to NY but a lot of sellers on Gun Broker and even some online retailers outright refuse to ship... besides the NYSRPA lawsuit what can we do about this? It is infuriating that even if you find a good deal they won't ship to an FFL. This law is creating an environment that is preventing sales outright. Can this, even though it is the seller's discretion, be used against the law to show it is violating our interstate commerce rights through over regulation?
 

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Need some clarification here. The crap act ammo background check is still written in the crap act but suspended, so no local vendors have done background checks..business as usual. ALOT of out of state vendors will not ship but a few still do. My FFL holder type guy claims if I get a shipment from out of state; it is an illegal shipment.(for whatever that means) I don't understand the logic behind his statement. (NY city is not included in this discussion as they have their own separate issues)

So...is it or is it not a legal shipment. Plus what they don't know can't hurt me but I'm not looking for that.
Sounds like you need to find a new 'FFL holder type guy' since yours is either trying to BS you into buying his overpriced ammo or just doesn't have the intellectual fortitude to know what is going on in his home state.
 

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Sounds like you need to find a new 'FFL holder type guy' since yours is either trying to BS you into buying his overpriced ammo or just doesn't have the intellectual fortitude to know what is going on in his home state.
Family and friends can send you ammo. Just commercial sales are restricted (which basically makes this part of the law useless). It is a pita for us but for a criminal to acquire a box or two it is cake. What law?
 

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Family and friends can send you ammo. Just commercial sales are restricted (which basically makes this part of the law useless). It is a pita for us but for a criminal to acquire a box or two it is cake. What law?
Actually it is not illegal to purchase ammo from out of state online. The unSAFE wants to make it illegal for out of state vendors to sell to NY'ers online by saying it must be a face to face transaction. However, NYS doesn't have the authority to enforce their illegal law on out of state vendors. So how would they prosecute? They can't arrest the NY citizen since it isn't illegal to own the ammo. This is the reason the BGC on ammo is so disturbing. They're trying to boil the water faster by putting another hurdle between us and ammo purchases.
 

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Actually it is not illegal to purchase ammo from out of state online. The unSAFE wants to make it illegal for out of state vendors to sell to NY'ers online by saying it must be a face to face transaction. However, NYS doesn't have the authority to enforce their illegal law on out of state vendors. So how would they prosecute? They can't arrest the NY citizen since it isn't illegal to own the ammo. This is the reason the BGC on ammo is so disturbing. They're trying to boil the water faster by putting another hurdle between us and ammo purchases.
I agree with you 100%, but Judge SCROTny doesn't and unfortunately it is his decision that matters. The fact that this "law" can be easily averted by criminals, doesn't that make it arbitrary and capricious? Especially since possession of ammo by a felon is already illegal?

SCROTny said if NY can ban the online sale of cigarettes then they can do the same with ammo. Tell me why he's wrong? (not trying to be a dick, I'm honestly curious besides the obvious "shall not be infringed" answer)
 

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I agree with you 100%, but Judge SCROTny doesn't and unfortunately it is his decision that matters. The fact that this "law" can be easily averted by criminals, doesn't that make it arbitrary and capricious? Especially since possession of ammo by a felon is already illegal?

SCROTny said if NY can ban the online sale of cigarettes then they can do the same with ammo. Tell me why he's wrong? (not trying to be a dick, I'm honestly curious besides the obvious "shall not be infringed" answer)
You said it in your statement in red. Ban the online sale (not purchase) of ammo. How is the state of NY supposed to enforce the violation of the SALE side of this transaction? NYS authority doesn't go beyond its borders. Skretny and NYS can say what they want, but that doesn't mean they can enforce it more than threatening the retailers out of state. It seems 99.9% are crumbling and succumbing to the threat. :(
 

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You said it in your statement in red. Ban the online sale (not purchase) of ammo. How is the state of NY supposed to enforce the violation of the SALE side of this transaction? NYS authority doesn't go beyond its borders. Skretny and NYS can say what they want, but that doesn't mean they can enforce it more than threatening the retailers out of state. It seems 99.9% are crumbling and succumbing to the threat. :(
So you're saying that the regulations are constitutional and don't violate the dormant commerce clause? Like you said, it doesn't matter if the law is constitutional or enforceable, all that matters is many retailers refuse to do business here.

If we had to get stuck with something I would have preferred something more like a FOID system where you apply once and then can receive ammo. Why must we be checked EVERY time (yes, I know it is to log your purchases for future raids).
 

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So you're saying that the regulations are constitutional and don't violate the dormant commerce clause? Like you said, it doesn't matter if the law is constitutional or enforceable, all that matters is many retailers refuse to do business here.

If we had to get stuck with something I would have preferred something more like a FOID system where you apply once and then can receive ammo. Why must we be checked EVERY time (yes, I know it is to log your purchases for future raids).
Absolutely not saying the regulations are constitutional (although, IANAL). I believe the retailers refuse to do business here because they don't need the hassle of NYS threatening them. They don't want to spend the money for a lawyer to tell them the threats are idle.

I don't want a FOID card to buy ammo either. Ammo serves no purpose without a means to discharge it. I've already been vetted on so many levels. I've proven through their checks and investigations that I'm not the one they need to worry about. They've permitted me to buy the gun. Now they are looking for ways for me not to use it. :(
 

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Op: find another ffl. NEVER BUY FROM HIM. Do not support stupid. Remember, stupid people breed. So u will have to deal with the offspring one day. And they will probably be libatrds.
 

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Preceding the UNSAFE paragraph on the BGC system, says as totally independent, that sellers were to have a book and write everything down. This could of been instituted this year as the law states but was not. Someone has a pretty poor interpretation of the law as I see it and we gave them a pass. Both sides.

Read it carefully as no where does it say the BGC superceded the written book or terminated the use of the book. The BGC system is to return transaction numbers and it does say the vendor records somewhere?

They did not implement as it was politically correct to do so.
They did not implement as it would be too much data that would be hard to input into the system to make electronic.

We needed it to alert the masses, as we say the FUDDs.
 
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