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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

this is a wonderful community you have here and I feel forrunatw to have access to all this information.

I mo have a bunch of questions that I am hoping some of the experts or those knowledgeable on the subject can help..

1.). My ultimate goal is to receive my fire arms permit. My company, which appears to be a well respected and established security firm has told me that roughly a year after working I can apply for it. Does that sound correct? I have completed my 8 hour and am about to take my 16 hour course. I am wondering if I can expedite the process or if one year of regular security detail is standard before applying. They told me with the amount of working cops, retired cops , etc., who can vouch for me when the time comes it is likely I will receive my permit in a much shorter time and have a better chance at being appeoved.

2.) Secondly, I am wondering if I was to leave FJC in the future, and apply for more lucrative positions with other companies, is my fire arm permit still valid to work for a different company?

3.) Lastly, I spoke with armored car guards from Guarda, and they say they have to leave their weapons at the office at the end of their shift. Is the only way to apply for my own fire aromas a private citizen so I can take it home with me? It seems like a lot of jumping through hoops.

if anyone can offer some advice and answer these questions for me I would be most grateful!

Thank you!
 

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You can get your permit on your own. Apply now. Most everybody who applies gets it, unless you have any felonies. Just takes some time, you will not be pushed through sooner just because you work for a security company.

If you apply for concealed carry there is no need to carry at work only. Some counties put restrictions on your permit. Somebody from your county should answer soon and can give you a better idea of what to expect.
 

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Security Guards are covered under NY General Business Law Article 7A. This applies to both un-armed and armed security guards. In fact, armed guards are considered to be an "upgrade" to the unarmed license. Armored Car Guards are covered separately under NYS GBL Article 8B. Because these are two separate laws, there is a separate, unrelated license for Armored Car Guard. To be clear, someone licensed solely as a security guard (armed or unarmed) CANNOT perform the duties of an armored car guard, and the opposite holds true as well: and armored car guard cannot perform "security" duties, only revenue escort. I state all of this because one needs to decide what they plan on doing if they are going to invest a significant amount of personal money into the training, licensing and background checks for all of this.

Most of the larger national/international contract security guard companies (i.e.: Securitas, AlliedBarton, US Security, Guardsmark) and some regional ones (SSC, FJC) employ full time certified "in-house" trainers that provide the licensing training to expedite the licensing process because it is in the company's best interest. This is because the contract guard industry is a revolving door for turnover of personnel and they can keep on top of their overtime costs by shortening the licensing process. This is why they also submit your license paperwork to the state and spot you the licensing/background check fees, retroactively taking them back in installments from your first couple of paychecks.

For an "upgrade" to armed guard, or the initial for armored car guard, outside of NYC, you must have a NYS pistol permit first. Legally, you cannot take the 47 hour Armed Guard or 47 hour Armored Car Guard (yes, the content is as identical as the amount of hours indicates) without having the pistol permit. Some counties (Westchester being one of them) can grant a temporary waiver signed by a county judge, after the person submitted their initial application and indicated that they need to participate in the course for employment purposes. NYC has a different system for the operations based in NYC, which is why the Guarda people that you talked to stated that they leave their guns at the office. NYC, for most armed guard and armored car guard purposes, "licenses" the company, rather than the individual, and the company both owns AND retains the firearms when off duty.

Another factor for armored car guard service is that guards with commercial driver licenses (at least a Class B without a "no airbrakes" restriction) will be paid significantly more because they can operate the larger vehicles.

Bottom line: FJC may be misleading you to some degree due to your recent start and lack of industry knowledge. Find out if they actually have armed contracts and if so, where they are. Since you're on the Island and the armed contracts may (most likely) be in NYC, this will effect how you are licensed based on the two different systems. If they don't have armed contracts... you're wasting your time.

Another factor is this: If you think that having an armed guard or armored car guard license is a backdoor to getting a full carry: you are dead wrong. Not where you reside. Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and the five boros are very clear on their "employment" administrative restriction on their pistols permits. If you are not currently at work, clocked in as a guard, and you are carrying your pistol, you are in violation of that restriction. This also includes travel to and from your place of employment: required to be locked up, ammunition separate and out of hands reach.

Most armed security in the metro area is not a pleasant experience. Do you really want to be an openly carrying TARGET stuck in a crappy retail pharmacy at 3:00am in the worst neighborhood you've ever been to with no backup other than you dialing 911 yourself? The police officer that was killed in Jersey City back in July '14 was executed by a perp who beat an armed guard to the ground in a Walgreens, took his weapon and decided to "become famous". That guard was lucky that the perp didn't test fire his gun on him first.

Go for your permit without delay on your own. Once you get it, you can upgrade for employment, etc. I'd also suggest moving either upstate (at least to Orange or Putnam) or, better yet, out of Newyorkistan and into America.
 

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Security Guards are covered under NY General Business Law Article 7A. This applies to both un-armed and armed security guards. In fact, armed guards are considered to be an "upgrade" to the unarmed license. Armored Car Guards are covered separately under NYS GBL Article 8B. Because these are two separate laws, there is a separate, unrelated license for Armored Car Guard. To be clear, someone licensed solely as a security guard (armed or unarmed) CANNOT perform the duties of an armored car guard, and the opposite holds true as well: and armored car guard cannot perform "security" duties, only revenue escort. I state all of this because one needs to decide what they plan on doing if they are going to invest a significant amount of personal money into the training, licensing and background checks for all of this.

Most of the larger national/international contract security guard companies (i.e.: Securitas, AlliedBarton, US Security, Guardsmark) and some regional ones (SSC, FJC) employ full time certified "in-house" trainers that provide the licensing training to expedite the licensing process because it is in the company's best interest. This is because the contract guard industry is a revolving door for turnover of personnel and they can keep on top of their overtime costs by shortening the licensing process. This is why they also submit your license paperwork to the state and spot you the licensing/background check fees, retroactively taking them back in installments from your first couple of paychecks.

For an "upgrade" to armed guard, or the initial for armored car guard, outside of NYC, you must have a NYS pistol permit first. Legally, you cannot take the 47 hour Armed Guard or 47 hour Armored Car Guard (yes, the content is as identical as the amount of hours indicates) without having the pistol permit. Some counties (Westchester being one of them) can grant a temporary waiver signed by a county judge, after the person submitted their initial application and indicated that they need to participate in the course for employment purposes. NYC has a different system for the operations based in NYC, which is why the Guarda people that you talked to stated that they leave their guns at the office. NYC, for most armed guard and armored car guard purposes, "licenses" the company, rather than the individual, and the company both owns AND retains the firearms when off duty.

Another factor for armored car guard service is that guards with commercial driver licenses (at least a Class B without a "no airbrakes" restriction) will be paid significantly more because they can operate the larger vehicles.

Bottom line: FJC may be misleading you to some degree due to your recent start and lack of industry knowledge. Find out if they actually have armed contracts and if so, where they are. Since you're on the Island and the armed contracts may (most likely) be in NYC, this will effect how you are licensed based on the two different systems. If they don't have armed contracts... you're wasting your time.

Another factor is this: If you think that having an armed guard or armored car guard license is a backdoor to getting a full carry: you are dead wrong. Not where you reside. Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester and the five boros are very clear on their "employment" administrative restriction on their pistols permits. If you are not currently at work, clocked in as a guard, and you are carrying your pistol, you are in violation of that restriction. This also includes travel to and from your place of employment: required to be locked up, ammunition separate and out of hands reach.

Most armed security in the metro area is not a pleasant experience. Do you really want to be an openly carrying TARGET stuck in a crappy retail pharmacy at 3:00am in the worst neighborhood you've ever been to with no backup other than you dialing 911 yourself? The police officer that was killed in Jersey City back in July '14 was executed by a perp who beat an armed guard to the ground in a Walgreens, took his weapon and decided to "become famous". That guard was lucky that the perp didn't test fire his gun on him first.

Go for your permit without delay on your own. Once you get it, you can upgrade for employment, etc. I'd also suggest moving either upstate (at least to Orange or Putnam) or, better yet, out of Newyorkistan and into America.
Some of what you said is correct, some is not:

Yes, apply for the permit right away. It takes over a year in Nassau County, so start now.
From my experience, an armed guard can indeed ride in an armored car. There is some grey area in the law about this. Those two licenses are essentially identical - I have both.
MOST of the security companies will NOT hire a "civilian" armed guard - they want only active/retired law enforcement with their own permits. Those who do generally pay much less - they hire civilian armed and armored car guards for as little as $12 an hour, while the LEOs minimum is around $20 and goes to $35+ (I make $35+ an hour). So one has to carefully consider whether they want to spend the time and money to train for a low paying job.
The exception to this is if you land on a City or Federal contract. They pay a Prevailing Wage, and everyone gets the same.

My facility has 70 armed guards working 24/7. Only 15 of them are "civilians", or as the company calls them "professional security guards". They will no longer hire anyone other than LEOs. The civilians guns are issued by the company, but the guards do take them home, as there is no place to secure them at the facility, at the clients discretion. \

A little known fact: While the "carry guard" license is technically only good for to and from work, IF the employer will back you up that you are "on call", it is a full carry. In our case, they do so, because we are a 24/7 minimum staffing contract, so anyone can be called in at any time. Keep your rig and uniform in your locker, you can respond any time from any place. And this is in NYC.

The guard companies do have in house trainers, and in fact my company gives the 8 hour annual at their expense. They also will pay for the 8 hour armed guard annual at a range they have a deal with. However, at this time they do NOT hire or promote armed guards from the non-LEO ranks.
 

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Some of what you said is correct, some is not:

Yes, apply for the permit right away. It takes over a year in Nassau County, so start now.
From my experience, an armed guard can indeed ride in an armored car. There is some grey area in the law about this. Those two licenses are essentially identical - I have both.
MOST of the security companies will NOT hire a "civilian" armed guard - they want only active/retired law enforcement with their own permits. Those who do generally pay much less - they hire civilian armed and armored car guards for as little as $12 an hour, while the LEOs minimum is around $20 and goes to $35+ (I make $35+ an hour). So one has to carefully consider whether they want to spend the time and money to train for a low paying job.
The exception to this is if you land on a City or Federal contract. They pay a Prevailing Wage, and everyone gets the same.

My facility has 70 armed guards working 24/7. Only 15 of them are "civilians", or as the company calls them "professional security guards". They will no longer hire anyone other than LEOs. The civilians guns are issued by the company, but the guards do take them home, as there is no place to secure them at the facility, at the clients discretion. \

A little known fact: While the "carry guard" license is technically only good for to and from work, IF the employer will back you up that you are "on call", it is a full carry. In our case, they do so, because we are a 24/7 minimum staffing contract, so anyone can be called in at any time. Keep your rig and uniform in your locker, you can respond any time from any place. And this is in NYC.

The guard companies do have in house trainers, and in fact my company gives the 8 hour annual at their expense. They also will pay for the 8 hour armed guard annual at a range they have a deal with. However, at this time they do NOT hire or promote armed guards from the non-LEO ranks.
What exactly is "not" correct in what I stated? If you've observed an armed security guard performing revenue escort in the capacity of an armored car guard, technically it is a violation of the law under N.Y. GB LAW Article 8-B § 891. No individual, partnership, association, limited liability company,
corporation, or any other entity, shall operate in the state as an
armored car carrier or provide armored car services, or hold themselves
out as an armored car carrier or provider of armored car services,
except as authorized by this article and without first being licensed by
the department. No armored car carrier shall employ any armored car
guard who does not possess a conditional letter of authority or a valid
registration card in accordance with the provisions of article eight-C
of this chapter.

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision one of this section,
each armored car carrier engaging in the business of providing armored
car services in the state as of the effective date of this section, may
continue to provide such services until the one hundred eightieth day
after this section shall have taken effect. No armored car carrier shall
provide armored car services after such date which has not complied with
the provisions of this article and article eight-C of this chapter.There's a reason why there's two separate licenses. Mainly because it's revenue for the State, but also because they are two distinct roles. Again, just because you've seen it done, doesn't make it legal. And, I can almost guarantee that if there was an "incident" (robbery,shooting,etc) and it was found that someone wasn't correctly licensed, both the company and the individual(s) would be in deep Schumer over it.

Based upon what you say, you seem to have a nice cushy contract. Awesome for you! But, I can tell you, having been executive management for one of the "Big Three" as far back as 1989, as well as both a NYS DCJS AND NJ SORA instructor, you are representative of a very small percentage in the tri-state area. Perhaps the only armed position better than yours, is the nuclear security teams at Indian Point and the other facilities upstate, who actually make enough to consider it a career. The bulk of contract security is unarmed, and the few positions that are armed are usually lowball contracts for retail stores in the 'hood.

Armored Car Guard isn't much better, when Loomis, Garda and Brinks only pay around $13 an hour to start, $15 if you've got a CDL. Also remember that revenue escort is not what it used to be. Most transactions have gone digital, so armored cars are just transporting some paper money for retail change and collection, occasional odds and ends like sensitive data storage or jewelry and usually buckets of coins. Not the volume it once was, so not really an expanding industry, which translates to low pay and few decent opportunities.

If you're purporting to be retired LEO and hence your max wage, enjoy your second career. In my experience, it's often difficult for retired police personnel to transition themselves to security since it's such a vastly different world from what they were used to. More static posts as opposed to vehicle patrols, more stress on customer service, etc. The worst combination is usually former non-supervisory personnel that become contract security managers. For a "white shield" that didn't perform scheduling tasks, staff development and disciplinary actions, and budget management functions, it's a seriously large learning curve to master!
 

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You mostly said what I said. I have been hired for armored car guard jobs with an armed guard license, like I said, not everyone interprets that law the same way.
The best paying job around is the Court Security Officer (Federal). They are up to about $40 an hour.
City contracts operate under a prevailing wage:

http://comptroller.nyc.gov/wp-content/uploads/documents/230-schedule2015-2016.pdf

If you scroll down to page 23 you can see the rates for armed and unarmed guards. I am an armed supervisor so I get more than the basic armed guard rate.
ALL City contracts operate under this wage determination. I think the Federal rate for armed guards (armed II) in NYC is $22.36, plus the health and welfare of course. Retirees who already have benefits get the health and welfare money paid directly into a 401K account, and if they are over 59 1/2 years old they can take it out any time without penalty (and NO State or Social Security taxes since it is a pension disbursement).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you very much for the information panzer and scosgt..

however, I am still confused despite all of your clarification. Please pardon my spelling as I am on my phone. Also I want to clarify what I do. I bounced this summer for probably the biggest bouncing company in Nassau. Then for the past month I have been working for FJC Security at a TD Bank. I make $15 an hour. There have been so many robberies (one just two days ago) in this general area it's crazy! And it's not the hood by any means at all. Just lots of access points for robbers to different highways.

anyway....is your guys advice to start applying for my pistol permit now? Also, isn't there a difference between having a permit for home and having it for employment uses?

I am certain FJC has federal contracts in which they use armed guards (I think all these contracts are in the city though). One armed FJC guard was recently shot in the head and killed only 3-4 weeks ago.

i was hoping that the salary jump for an armed guard would be much higher so that's dissapointing. I'm still confused on if there are different applications for armored car pistol and regular armed guard and regular pistol permitfor my home, AND a concealed carry permit. I've tried doing research but I am very confused on all of this.

i also must ask this because this may be a nail in the coffin for me. 8 years ago I was arrested for a DWI. However, I blew a .08 which is just above the legal limit. It came out years later that the testing equipment that the Nassau cops used was faulty and my lawyer said I could get this off my record for ANOTHER $10,000. I didn't want to spend the money at the time. I worked in the white collar world for many years and hated it (I have a masters degree in accounting), and wanted a complete career change. Will the DWI stop me in my tracks as far as obtaining a permit?

and unfortunately, maybe even worse that the DWI, was that I became addicted to Vicodin after a doctor prescribed it for a nasty injury, and I ended up going to a 30 day rehab. Do they have access or make you sign waivers to release all of your medical records when applying? This was roughly 10 years ago and I have been completely clean besides a drink MAYBE once a year since rehab.

will either or both of those be immediate disqualifiers?
 

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Mankind,

I'll try to break down some answers in reverse order:

1. Here is the pistol permit application Handbook for Nassau County. Review it and see if that clears up a bunch of your questions:
http://pdcn.org/formPDF.aspx?formid=26

and here is the application package itself:
http://www.pdcn.org/formPDF.aspx?formid=21

2. As far as the Vicodin addiction: Not be an unlawful user of,or addicted to,any controlled substance as defined in 21 U.S.C.§802;
You WILL need to answer the questions on the application that ask:
Have you ever undergone treatment for alcohol or substance use? Have you used or still use narcotics, tranquillizers or anti depressant medication? If YES, record doctor's name, address and phone number, (attach)

3. About your DWI conviction: You will need to answer: Have you ever been arrested?If YES, list the following information, date, charge(s), disposition, court, and police agency, (attach)

Good luck making your way through the hurdles that your previous adventures have left behind for you. You'll need to ask yourself : "How bad do I really want this? How much am I willing to spend in legal fees to straighten this out?" Just know that if you go for broke and try rolling the dice on this without clearing those things, in Nassau, you are probably looking at a DENIAL and then you can ADD that to the pile of legal hurdles you'll need to get out of your way.

As a NYS DCJS instructor and based on your original post that mentioned you had yet to take the 16 hour training, I know that you haven't received your unarmed security license from the Dept. of State yet. Now that you've been forthcoming, I will tell you that you will probably be denied your initial unarmed security license by the state and they will ask you for the accusatory instrument from your DWI arrest along with the subsequent court disposition before they proceed further. You may want to get those documents ready... there's only a short window to respond (15 days I believe) until they permanently deny that license too for lack of response to the inquiry.

Good luck! I hope that you clear those things up.
 

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The chances of getting a pistol license are probably between slim and none.
Keep in mind that mamy clients who pay for armed guards require finger prints and drug tests beyond what the security company gets. CERTAINLY on state and federal contracts. And the feds require a security clearance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thank you for the answers.

What if I omit telling them about my medical history?

Also, ANY type of background check I run on myself, as well as the companies I have worked for, the DWI does not show up, I believe because it was reduced down to a speeding ticket. I had 4 drinks one night, took a taxi home. Got a full 6 hours of sleep, and then was arrested the NEXT MORNING (probably 10 hours after my last drink!) I was pulled over for a broken tail light. Passed the field sobriety test with zero trouble. I'm not trying to play the victim here, but I know that arrest was absolute bull****. I was sober as a judge. Then it comes out that where I was specifically taken for the breathalizer, all of their equipment was faulty.

I'm not trying to paint myself as a saint here, but I always made sure to never drink and drive.

So what if I just omit telling them about my brief encounter with vicodin?


FJC seemed either incompetent or very liberal with their hiring because (and I guess I am profiling here), but when we showed up for our uniforms, they surprised the 8 of us with urine tests (followed up by an official lab corp test a few days later), but two black guys with tattoos on their neck and full arm sleeve tattoos came to me and asked me to pee in the cup for them! Naturally I declined. This wasn't some sort of sneaky morality test by FJC either because they both are guards at banks now ( I've seen them with my own eyes in uniform).


Anyway, I am still so confused by what I should do here. Like I said, my instructor said wait a year and then they will back us and our application and with the recommendation of all of their staff of cops and former cops, the application gets completed in about 6-8 weeks.

Ughhh......This is all so frustrating. But thank you nonetheless. I do very much appreciate it.

Oh and Panzaer, I had no idea the 16 hour was so involved. If I would have just stuck with the bouncing company, they literally just give you it after a certain amount of time with no classes taken or anything.
 

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Passed the field sobriety test with zero trouble. I'm not trying to play the victim here, but I know that arrest was absolute bull****. I was sober as a judge. Then it comes out that where I was specifically taken for the breathalizer, all of their equipment was faulty...
My, that's quite a few coincidences... :rolleyes:
 

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Thank you for the answers.

What if I omit telling them about my medical history?

Also, ANY type of background check I run on myself, as well as the companies I have worked for, the DWI does not show up, I believe because it was reduced down to a speeding ticket. I had 4 drinks one night, took a taxi home. Got a full 6 hours of sleep, and then was arrested the NEXT MORNING (probably 10 hours after my last drink!) I was pulled over for a broken tail light. Passed the field sobriety test with zero trouble. I'm not trying to play the victim here, but I know that arrest was absolute bull****. I was sober as a judge. Then it comes out that where I was specifically taken for the breathalizer, all of their equipment was faulty.

I'm not trying to paint myself as a saint here, but I always made sure to never drink and drive.

So what if I just omit telling them about my brief encounter with vicodin?

FJC seemed either incompetent or very liberal with their hiring because (and I guess I am profiling here), but when we showed up for our uniforms, they surprised the 8 of us with urine tests (followed up by an official lab corp test a few days later), but two black guys with tattoos on their neck and full arm sleeve tattoos came to me and asked me to pee in the cup for them! Naturally I declined. This wasn't some sort of sneaky morality test by FJC either because they both are guards at banks now ( I've seen them with my own eyes in uniform).

Anyway, I am still so confused by what I should do here. Like I said, my instructor said wait a year and then they will back us and our application and with the recommendation of all of their staff of cops and former cops, the application gets completed in about 6-8 weeks.

Ughhh......This is all so frustrating. But thank you nonetheless. I do very much appreciate it.

Oh and Panzaer, I had no idea the 16 hour was so involved. If I would have just stuck with the bouncing company, they literally just give you it after a certain amount of time with no classes taken or anything.
You went to rehab. There is a record of that. You were arrested for DWI. There is a record of that. One lie ends the process unfavorably.

But then you said that you were sent for a drug test and refused. I have worked for several security companies. Refusal to take a drug test on demand is automatic termination.

So now this entire story sounds very fishy. It appears you want someone to advise you to lie about your background. No one is going to do that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You went to rehab. There is a record of that. You were arrested for DWI. There is a record of that. One lie ends the process unfavorably.

But then you said that you were sent for a drug test and refused. I have worked for several security companies. Refusal to take a drug test on demand is automatic termination.

So now this entire story sounds very fishy. It appears you want someone to advise you to lie about your background. No one is going to do that.
If you reread what I wrote, I said two prospective employees asked ME to pee in the cup for THEM (since they said they were potheads). I didn't deny the urine test, which I passed, and as I also mentioned, I was only days later tested at a Labcorp, which in both cases I obviously passed.

I'm not sure why my story sounds fishy to you, or what purpose it would serve for me to fabricate some lie on a message board to get a reaction out of a few people. I feel my questions are entirely valid and I don't see how you see it otherwise.

You reiterate that I went to went to rehab and there is a record of that. Where would this record be? It wouldn't be in my medical records because I did not go through any doctors and checked into a private rehab. Do you have to sign a waiver to release your medical records in order to get your permit? I still do not see how they would find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My, that's quite a few coincidences... :rolleyes:
I didn't realize this board was so judgmental. And would you mind edifying all of these "coincidences"? I was arrested for blowing into a FAULTY breathalyzer and charged with a crime. This was all over the news years ago that hundreds of people were arrested based on faulty equipment. So if I blew just above the legal limit, into FAULTY equipment, and arrested for it, that's a "coincidence' somehow? And shame on you two for "liking" this post and others.

I'm NOT asking anyone if I should lie. I never even implied it. Again, it's disconcerting how judgmental, and quite frankly, "quick to jump the gun" (see what I did there lol) to assume something negative about me because they misread what I wrote.
 

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In one post, you asked if you "should omit telling them about your medical history." The Nassau County application specifically asks:
Have you ever undergone treatment for alcohol or substance use? Have you used or still use narcotics, tranquillizers or anti depressant medication? If YES, record doctor's name, address and phone number, (attach)

Since you have stated information about your former Vicodin addiction, then to withhold that information from the background investigation and answer "NO" on the application would be viewed by any reasonable person as, in fact, lying. I'm not trying to judge here, but it is what it is.

You're an adult, do whatever you want, bro! Just a reminder, this can be found on page one of the application packet:
FALSE STATEMENTS MADE ON ANY FORM IS PUNISHABLE AS A CLASS "A" MISDEMEANOR PURSUANT TO SECTION 210.45 OF THE NYS PENAL LAW AND WILL RESULT IN THE DISAPPROVAL OF YOU APPLICATION
 

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"Also, ANY type of background check I run on myself, as well as the companies I have worked for, the DWI does not show up"

Let me give you another insight into the world of contract security. It's a very low markup industry, so they try to keep the overhead down as much as possible. This includes both the depth and the scope of background investigations. They will run a bare bones BGC based on your input at interview and on the job application. A 50 state search costs money. If you say you've only lived in 2 states and have never been arrested, they'll just request a search on those two states. However, if you were arrested on felony charges in a completely different state, that won't show up in the requested BGC.... yet. Then they'll put you to work conditionally and submit your licensing paperwork to NYS. Then, sometime later, when NYS Division of Criminal Justice Services runs you through the FBI, that felony arrest red flags. This in turn generates a letter to the employer stating what was found and that you will NOT be issued a license unless it is resolved within 15 days. You get a similar from DCJS stating that your application has been denied until you produce the accusatory instrument (the charges) AND an official court disposition of the case showing a favorable outcome within 15 days, since a felony and certain misdemeanor convictions would be be an instant and permanent denial. I can't tell you how many times I had to remove new hires from a jobsite when this happened. A few were able to clear it up, but not most. That's how it is.

"FJC seemed either incompetent or very liberal with their hiring because (and I guess I am profiling here)"

They're not being liberal, they just don't care. Most contract unarmed security gigs are low paying, and a lot of people that will take these available jobs are either retirees, students or people where it's their 2nd or even 3rd job. That's why the overnight shifts are loaded with people looking for a place to sleep and get paid for it. Most contract guard companies make their profit margin on volume. They'll take on low paying, unrealistic clients, promise them excellent security and then hire tatooed, drug using thugs that'll sleep all night and steal laptops and anything else unsecured when they think they're not being recorded. Back around 2003, I had a client ask me why I couldn't staff his office building with retired cops. The bill rate (what we charged him) at his site was around $13-14 per guard, of which they were paid $8.25 per hour. LMAO! I answered him with a question:"You're a licensed engineer with a bachelor's degree right? Well, when you retire, would you go work in the lobby of a building like this one for a little over a bucks an hour? No? Well, then there's your answer: When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys."

"I had no idea the 16 hour was so involved." You already took the required 8 hour "Pre-Assignment" Course. By law, you are supposed to complete the 16 hour OJT (On the Job Training) course at the location you get assigned to. That is supposed to consist of the particular location's policies, procedures, equipment, patrol routes, etc., so it is essentially whatever the company wants to make into a curriculum. Now, the reality is this: In their quest to keep overtime down, in-house trainers are basically diploma mills that give you a general synopsis of what guard duties are expected to be like, then give the sign of the cross and a Hail Mary, and then boot you out the door to your new location and right into the schedule. If you haven't figured it out, the bouncing place is not even doing the formal classes, which is technically illegal (wow! go figure!) and going straight to the Hail Mary!

I'd say that 95% chance FJC is blowing smoke up your rear about helping you with your permit. Based on what you said, if it isn't total BS, it's probably the NYC system of licensing, which will do little for you anyway. Good luck!
 

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Mankind,

I have to ask, what are you thinking? Any number of us, myself included, haven't gotten to this point in our lives being 100% perfect. I got my CCW, and felt I had to jump through a few hoops to get it. Hey, I had my share of youthful issues. I've done my best to move on and live a better life.

But it as I read through your issues, I was struck by what I consider to be your lack of accountability for your own actions. It just seems like you are trying to deflect the blame elsewhere too much.

Also, reading all of the posts that explain in detail about the good and bad side of the armed security guard profession (more negative than positive too IMHO), I began to ask myself, - why would someone who was not ex LEO even want to consider this line of work?

It just seems to me, that if your goal is to be able to legally own a handgun, then try to make that happen. But if you are thinking that somehow going down the armed security guard route is easier or better, I think you should probably reconsider that.

There are many other jobs that you could apply for, and probably make a better living at as well. As far as the gun thing goes, it strikes me that you are on the fringe. You may be able to turn it around and get a CCW here in NY, and you may not. But I think trying to deflect the blame as much as you are won't help your case. You may not like to hear it, and may accuse me of being judgemental, hypocritical, or whatever, and that's OK. Just tossing my two cents in as someone who has lived a less than perfect life, has been through the process, and can offer a bit of advice as you asked for when posting here.

Whatever you decide to do in life, I wish you all the best, as I am sure everyone else here does as well.
 

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i also must ask this because this may be a nail in the coffin for me. 8 years ago I was arrested for a DWI. However, I blew a .08 which is just above the legal limit. It came out years later that the testing equipment that the Nassau cops used was faulty and my lawyer said I could get this off my record for ANOTHER $10,000. I didn't want to spend the money at the time. I worked in the white collar world for many years and hated it (I have a masters degree in accounting), and wanted a complete career change. Will the DWI stop me in my tracks as far as obtaining a permit?

and unfortunately, maybe even worse that the DWI, was that I became addicted to Vicodin after a doctor prescribed it for a nasty injury, and I ended up going to a 30 day rehab. Do they have access or make you sign waivers to release all of your medical records when applying? This was roughly 10 years ago and I have been completely clean besides a drink MAYBE once a year since rehab.

will either or both of those be immediate disqualifiers?
The dwi arrest never goes away, regardless if you paid your lawyer 10,000 or not. They will see this. That's not to say it is an automatic denial, because it's not. People make mistakes and you were not convicted.

Not mentioning it will certainly end in a denial though.

As for the vicoden

https://www.omh.ny.gov/omhweb/mhbc/

Chances are they will see that also.
 

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Law enforcement has access to sealed records for employment/firearms purposes, and YES, you have to agree to allow them to see your medical records.
The fact that you went to a private rehab facility does NOT mean that no reports were ever made to anyone.

You post about the drug test was unclear so thank you for clarifying it now I understand.

However, for a Federal contract job I had to take a DOT level drug test, and trust me, it is VERY tightly controlled. There is no way you can get someone to pee for you on that one.
 
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