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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, first post here, so bear with me!

I'm just beginning the process of applying for a pistol permit, and as such, called the number for the Saratoga Pistol Safety Course. After several attempts to get through (unsuccessfully), I eventually got a hold of someone who informed me - "We have enough people for the courses to get us through to the Fall". Translation - This is going to seriously hold up my application process.

For a relatively conservative county like Saratoga, this is surprising... ANYWAYS, here's my question...

Is it worth writing to Judge Seibert (the judge who handles pistol permits), requesting that I be able to transfer a neighboring county's Safety Course into Saratoga? I called Schenectady, and they have slots available in February.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated!
 

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Doesn't hurt to ask politely. Maybe if you take the other county class and have yourself scheduled for the Saratoga class he would be receptive to the idea.
 

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I would call the people at the pistol permit office first. They've generally been helpful here even though this is not a full carry county. My impression is that the judge is the one who is anti full carry. The pistol permit office people are just doing their jobs.

So give them a call, tell them your scenario and see if they've ever done anything like that before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My post wasn't about the possibility of being granted "Full Carry". It's about transferring the course from Schenectady to Saratoga.
 

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I think he was trying to say not to rock the boat because it's already a no carry county so you don't want to make any waves or you might not get anything.

I maintain, just call the permit office and see what they say. Ultimately they're not the ones making the decisions and they've always been friendly to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I will be petitioning the courts, and will also be raising the issue through Chris Gibson's office. Bureaucracy has no right to stand between people and their Constitutional rights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
They said that you need to take the safety course in Saratoga. That would mean waiting until the Fall. I called the Schenectady gun safety course, and they have openings on Feb 3.

I'm on the local Republican committee, so I will be dealing with this issue through formal channels. I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.
 

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Please do. I'm pushing my fiancé to go for her permit and I also have a good friend who wants to get his here in Saratoga county so I'm interested to see what develops.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
After writing a well thought out letter, I received a response with basically one sentence... "Request Denied". I will be talking with a senior representative of Chris Gibson very shortly about this, and will let you know what they suggest / offer.
 

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I took my Pistol course last Jan ('10)for Schenectady Co. and half the class was for Saratoga Co.
The class was Jan, 5th, 6th, and 12th 2010 at the Guan Ho Ha fish and game club.
 

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Filled until fall 2011?

Convenient.

Is the safety course, a NRA approved course?

If so, then why does it matter where it is taken?

Further what if said course in the county was filled until Fall 2015.

Or, for the sake of argument what if you could only practice our first amendment after taking a sensitivity course, but wait that course is filled too, until the fall of 2011. So keep your mouth shut, until then.

Does anybody see a pattern?
 

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I actually met Judge Seibert recently, by chance, and he seemed like a very nice man. In my situation he was a bit coarse on written paper. Maybe he is getting soft? Lame duck. I read an article about someone who was going to run for his seat. He's Republican I think? I don't know his stance on guns.
 

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If you don't know, you had better find out before you vote for him. Don't ask him specifically if he supports the 2A. Ask, instead, if he agrees that NYS PL 400 allows for an issuing officer to restrict carry. If he says yes, he ought to call Orleans County Jude James Punch, who disagrees. However, Judge Punch believes that if someone needs require restrictions, then he won't issue the permit. This doesn't mean he agrees with me, just that he knows my position, and that of the founders in regards 2A. I sent him about 10 pages of stuff, referred him to Heller, and McDonald, Shuttlesworth/Staub, and other rulings in which judges stated 2A is not able to be infringed. One thing we need in NYS is a reference as to what a reasonable time frame is. If the county doesn't offer enough classes, attend the county board meetings and ask local county board members to up the money(ies) to the authorities who give the course, or to allow more people to be able to give the course. Go to the gun store on Rt. 9 in, or just north of Clifton Park near Round Lake. Ask them about whether there is something more you can do.

What we did here in Orleans County was bring a lawsuit against the judge. He got the message & retired. It seems your judge already is retiring, so nothing may change. Seibert just issued a permit to my daughter who took both the NRA course, and the local course. It took her almost a year to get her permit. You might want to tell Seibert about the Shuttlesworth decision, and note that if the permit isn;t issued in a timely manner you are willing to go to the SCOTUS to get the permit system overturned. I wouldn't try to ask any help from NRA< or NYSR&P, as they seem to be for the permit system as a "Common Sense" effort to make gun owners seem law compliant. Problem is, if the law is unconstitutional, they don;t seem willing to go to court to fight it. I'm not sure why, as their bylaws require them to protect the whole of the constitution, but the 2A in particular. Perhaps if we let them know we are aware of this it will change their tune. Perhaps even simply letting them know that you intend to do it, with, or without them, they might jump on the bandwagon so they get some of the credit. Imagine someone doing this on their own, and NRA gets none? They'd be shown to be unnecessary, and they'd have annual members dropping like flies. At least, that's my theory. As it is, many don't join because of NRA's current policies.

A second thing we can do is let it out that we are willing to be board members, and have our names included on the back side of the form where you can fill in the names of others who you might wish to see on the board.
 

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I have moved to Saratoga from out of state and continually shocked by this kind of bureaucratic obstruction and harassment of law abiding gun owners.

I am in the same boat - about to start my pistol permit process in Saratoga. The irony is that I am a certified NRA Basic Pistol Safety course instructor - i.e. I am certified by NRA to teach the same course that I am required to take.

Is it possible to sue the county before beginning the permit process? Or does one have to attempt to file the application (minus the safety course), get rejected and then sue about the safety course delays? I don't mind rocking the boat for myself if it benefits other applicants in the future. This obstructionism has nothing to do with gun safety - it has everything to do with reducing the number of gun owners and thereby their political influence. And if we put up with it, that is the way it shall stay.
 

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Kevin:

If you are indeed an NRA Certified Instructor for the NRA Basic Pistol, then that certification supercedes the student certificate
 
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