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Wrong necs check only list serial # long gun
Right, point being if you buy a gun anywhere, there's a record of that transaction and an background check with that serial number. So if you're caught with it, and anyone has the inclination to investigate, one would think that paperwork could turn up.

Hence the question: can you buy out of state without a permit? There is no federal law against buying long guns out of state and transporting them back (no FFL to FFL transfer). But can NY still prosecute for bypassing the permit requirement? Just wondering how NY could enforce this on other states.
 

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Right, point being if you buy a gun anywhere, there's a record of that transaction and an background check with that serial number. So if you're caught with it, and anyone has the inclination to investigate, one would think that paperwork could turn up.

Hence the question: can you buy out of state without a permit? There is no federal law against buying long guns out of state and transporting them back (no FFL to FFL transfer). But can NY still prosecute for bypassing the permit requirement? Just wondering how NY could enforce this on other states.
Think it is federal law that if you are selling a long gun to somebody from another state you can only do so if they are legally allowed to possess it in their home state, so I'm pretty sure gun shops in other states will not sell to people from NY anymore unless they present a permit and even then the gunshops still may not want to deal with NY and will just blackball NY customers. Some NY gun shops already do that to people from NYC because they simply don't want to deal with complying with the additional restrictions from the city. Just another way NY makes it hard on lawful gun owners they try to intimidate people who would sell firearms to people who live in NY
 

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Regarding "pouring money into education..."

Check out education spending, federal and state, over the years. It has been going up every year for more than 40 years now. It goes up, salaries for teachers and administrators go up, funding for books, programs and buildings goes up... Having covered many school board and budget meetings as a reporter, I believe more money is a quick fix that allows unions to demand higher salaries but does nothing for our children unless there is a change (or improvement?) in education standards and curriculum. I've seen high school principals making $100,000 a year in communities where some parents earned $14 an hour at a textile plant and cops made $20,000 a year.

In other words, "what" we are teaching is as important, or more important, than how much money we throw at it.

My two cents.

Peace.
 

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Regarding "pouring money into education..."

Check out education spending, federal and state, over the years. It has been going up every year for more than 40 years now. It goes up, salaries for teachers and administrators go up, funding for books, programs and buildings goes up... Having covered many school board and budget meetings as a reporter, I believe more money is a quick fix that allows unions to demand higher salaries but does nothing for our children unless there is a change (or improvement?) in education standards and curriculum. I've seen high school principals making $100,000 a year in communities where some parents earned $14 an hour at a textile plant and cops made $20,000 a year.

In other words, "what" we are teaching is as important, or more important, than how much money we throw at it.

My two cents.

Peace.
I would love to see the stats on teach salaries going up for 40 years compared to cost of living and inflation. I think that, like most professions, wages have mostly stagnated in that same time frame.

And I also think it's a grave disservice to our kids if we don't make education a priority, no matter cost.

Average teacher salary across NY in 2017 was ~80k/year. WOW! Great job to have, right? Except that's the average, not the norm, and it's driven up by NYC teacher salaries. I believe that figure also includes administrator salaries (which I agree are too high for the people who aren't directly interfacing with the kids... the ones with the actual job of teaching, in other words). So it's a bit artificially inflated. When you look at average salaries from actual job descriptions, NY average teacher salary (not including admin staff) is less than 33k/year.

Let's take a look at the districts with the lowest salaries in NY. Surprise, surprise, Susquehanna Valley (Conklin district, where the Buffalo terrorist lived) median salary is 62k, with bottom earners getting less than 48k. Again, consider that includes administrators who are often paid much more than classroom teachers.

You may think 48k is a great salary for a teacher. But consider the education and certifications teachers must have, including a Master's and qualifications for their age group and subject matter. I earn double that average and have half the education. This is a massive disincentive for new teachers.

And Conklin teachers earn less than Rochester City School teachers, who are competing for lowest graduation rates in the country, I believe. Then consider that you're fortunate enough to live in a state with a higher standard for education, and that NY teachers are paid much more than Red state teachers. Average salaries are as low as 23K in states like Louisiana.

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement across the board, but education is one of the areas we shouldn't be scoffing at cost. Low income, low education populations generate more crime, greater delinquency, higher rates of drug dependency, and contribute less to the greater community in terms of human resources (smart people who can work well) and revenue (spending money and paying taxes).

Ignorance is the root cause of nearly all violent crime. If you can elevate more people out of their ignorance, crime will go down. That's a fact.

I'm not sure what you mean by "what" we're teaching. Science and Mathematics should be a priority, alongside reading comprehension and critical thinking. God and politics should be kept strictly separate from public schools.

We don't have to throw money at the problem without considering how best to fix it first, but the problem isn't that teachers and schools are overfunded. Education is a service, like your firefighters and police. You don't pay to receive some material return on your investment. You pay so you're ensuring a better future for the community at large. They could be managed better, but they need resources to do their jobs well.
 

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Think it is federal law that if you are selling a long gun to somebody from another state you can only do so if they are legally allowed to possess it in their home state, so I'm pretty sure gun shops in other states will not sell to people from NY anymore unless they present a permit and even then the gunshops still may not want to deal with NY and will just blackball NY customers. Some NY gun shops already do that to people from NYC because they simply don't want to deal with complying with the additional restrictions from the city. Just another way NY makes it hard on lawful gun owners they try to intimidate people who would sell firearms to people who live in NY
There are a few posts and this may answer several questions and ask another. According to the standing NYS law there is firearm transfer recisiprosity (I likely spelled that wrong) between 3 states. Only 3! So if you bought a long gun in PA, NJ or CT you were ok to bring it into NY. It is on you not the FFL to verify it’s compliance. All transfers “must” have a serial number under last years Ghost Gun Legislation. Stripped lowers are recorded as “other”. Now two years ago there was a case where there was an upstate NY resident who bought non compliant ARs in some other state. His house was raided by a joint NYSP raid.
So usually the transfer records are only kept at the gun shop - but in this case the out of state residence was a flag for BATF to notify NY???? I have also heard of a NY special task force that combs the Iron Highway - do you remember Bloomberg sending cops to Nevada gun shows? There either seems to be cooperation from those states and it’s not unlikely that in our digital age NY may have access to and combs records of the OOS NICs checks - or the BATF is sending the flags. Either way, NY gets the info, you get busted. My guess is that the permit allows you to buy and that other states may refuse a direct sale to a NY resident or will only ship to a NY FFL. It’s gray at this point to the two FFLs I chatted with last night.
 

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Didn't insult you. I offered a point of view and an opinion, and it wasn't regarding your character. I gave you these observations: a) it sounds petty and unreasonable (childlike) to use name calling as an argument, b) it's difficult to take you seriously when you sound petty and unreasonable. I didn't do it nicely, so apologies for any ruffled feathers. But it wasn't an insult.

I'm sure you're a decent enough human. Thought you might want to know your language is unbecoming. After all, we wouldn't want to insult anyone.

At any rate, re:



I happen to agree with you there.

One of the things that makes me a dirty progressive is I advocate for attacking the so-called "gun problem" with a social welfare strategy. I don't mean welfare like foodstamps. I mean real increases to affordable healthcare (incl. mental health), increased wages across the board, pour money into education so kids don't grow into delinquent terrorists, etc. Make life so good for so many people that crime in general drops, and the ignorance and hatred that enable these cowards is diminished. Happy people don't commit mass murder.

Best thing Progressives could do is adopt gun ownership positivity. Make it so all you folks who vote based on gun issues have an easier time voting in policies that benefit public interests. And when the domestic terrorists start to dwindle, so too does the call for banning scary guns.
My tong in cheek use of the term was merely that, you took exception - I really don’t care.
I am not a child nor does anyone who knows me think I act irresponsible. I could add on and on to this and make a few points here or there - it’s not important and I do not have to justify myself to you.
 

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I do not have to justify myself to you.
And yet... you did :)

Look, I know the score. I understand you have a prejudice against folks who don't carry your political opinion because it's obvious in the ways you talk about them. When I see someone calling any right-leaning person a fascist on some forum like Reddit, I tell them exactly what I told you.

Like I said, I know the score. You're used to getting some chuckles and knowing winks when you throw around derogatory terms for people you collectively dislike. Everyone has their in-group, and I don't fault you for seeking like minds. But if you can't handle me telling you the behavior is asinine, there's nothing else I can say to make it better for you. Calling people libtard is stupid and divisive, even if you don't think they can hear you.

I don't let friends cat call women on the street, because it's rude and hostile and alienating. And if they take offense to that, that's their problem; not mine. They're the a**hole for being a jerk, not me for telling them they're behaving like a jerk.

If you want to continue this fine discussion, do me a favor and reach out privately. Not a big fan of airing dirty laundry, especially when it's this off topic. I imagine the moderators and other forums members alike are ready to punch me in the face for my walls of text.
 

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A technology not available yet? CA has been trying to get it created for quite a while. Much like permits that haven't been created yet or funded. Five years minimum to get those on line.
I am 19 years old and own a mini 14 and ruger 10/22. Will I be forced to give up these guns?! I have read the law and see no indication as to 18-21 year olds that already own semi autos.
 

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And yet... you did :)

Look, I know the score. I understand you have a prejudice against folks who don't carry your political opinion because it's obvious in the ways you talk about them. When I see someone calling any right-leaning person a fascist on some forum like Reddit, I tell them exactly what I told you.

Like I said, I know the score. You're used to getting some chuckles and knowing winks when you throw around derogatory terms for people you collectively dislike. Everyone has their in-group, and I don't fault you for seeking like minds. But if you can't handle me telling you the behavior is asinine, there's nothing else I can say to make it better for you. Calling people libtard is stupid and divisive, even if you don't think they can hear you.

I don't let friends cat call women on the street, because it's rude and hostile and alienating. And if they take offense to that, that's their problem; not mine. They're the a**hole for being a jerk, not me for telling them they're behaving like a jerk.

If you want to continue this fine discussion, do me a favor and reach out privately. Not a big fan of airing dirty laundry, especially when it's this off topic. I imagine the moderators and other forums members alike are ready to punch me in the face for my walls of text.
So and you continue to grandstand rather than PM me. Get over yourself sonny I have combat boots older than you.
 

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I made several calls today to try to clarify how one may get a license to own a semi-automatic rifle. Not one of those scary black ones, but any run of the mill semi, like a Ruger 10/22 or on my case, my Dad's Remington Model 740 that he bought sometime in the late 50's. The local police chief had no clue, and suggested I call the county pistol permit clerk. She has no idea what the procedure would be to get a license to own a semi-automatic rifle and suggested I call the local state police barracks. The trooper answering the phone said he had no idea and gave me this phone number to call: 855-LAW-GUNS.

Surprisingly I had no issue getting through to someone to speak with. He told me that to purchase any semi-automatic rifle post 9/1/2022 one must have an amendment put on one's pistol permit, and if the purchaser does not have a pistol permit they need to go through the application process. I asked about my Dad's rifle, and he said that as long as I have possession of it now, with a receipt stating that I got possession of it prior to 9/1, I do not need to put it on my permit. I then asked about passing it on to my son and was told that he needs to apply for a permit before receiving it unless I provide a receipt dated prior to 9/1/2022.

It gets better. After 9/1, to purchase ammunition in NYS the store selling you that ammunition has to call in to see if you can purchase ammunition. I stopped at my LGS and spoke with the manager, who is a good friend of mine. As far as he knows, he cannot sell ammunition starting 9/1, unless he gets notified by the state who to call/ As of this afternoon he had no number or any idea who to call, and no idea if or when he will get that information.
 

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I made several calls today to try to clarify how one may get a license to own a semi-automatic rifle. Not one of those scary black ones, but any run of the mill semi, like a Ruger 10/22 or on my case, my Dad's Remington Model 740 that he bought sometime in the late 50's. The local police chief had no clue, and suggested I call the county pistol permit clerk. She has no idea what the procedure would be to get a license to own a semi-automatic rifle and suggested I call the local state police barracks. The trooper answering the phone said he had no idea and gave me this phone number to call: 855-LAW-GUNS.

Surprisingly I had no issue getting through to someone to speak with. He told me that to purchase any semi-automatic rifle post 9/1/2022 one must have an amendment put on one's pistol permit, and if the purchaser does not have a pistol permit they need to go through the application process. I asked about my Dad's rifle, and he said that as long as I have possession of it now, with a receipt stating that I got possession of it prior to 9/1, I do not need to put it on my permit. I then asked about passing it on to my son and was told that he needs to apply for a permit before receiving it unless I provide a receipt dated prior to 9/1/2022.

It gets better. After 9/1, to purchase ammunition in NYS the store selling you that ammunition has to call in to see if you can purchase ammunition. I stopped at my LGS and spoke with the manager, who is a good friend of mine. As far as he knows, he cannot sell ammunition starting 9/1, unless he gets notified by the state who to call/ As of this afternoon he had no number or any idea who to call, and no idea if or when he will get that information.
The reason why the background check failed in the Safe Act was no funding. This new law will create chaos. People won’t pass a background for buying a box of hunting ammunition. Look what’s happened in California. Law abiding gun owners who have clean backgrounds are getting flagged and can’t purchase ammunition.
 

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Wrong necs check only list serial # long gun
Actually a NICS Check only asks the question of; is the purchase or transfer for a Long Gun, Handgun, or Other (frame/receiver)?
The 4473 contains the make-model-serial number-caliber of the gun being disposed of, and that form also carries the NICS number and disposition (presuming a check was done, as some States have exemptions via CCW Licenses)
BATFE is mandated by Congressional Charter to destroy the records after xx number of days, but I'l wager that someone has a back door secretly retaining all that information.
 

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The reason why the background check failed in the Safe Act was no funding. This new law will create chaos. People won’t pass a background for buying a box of hunting ammunition. Look what’s happened in California. Law abiding gun owners who have clean backgrounds are getting flagged and can’t purchase ammunition.
The Ammunition BG check attached to the un_SAFE Act was due to the Legislature unknowingly thought that it could be piggy-backed into the NICS System, but Congress specifically forbid such actions, and NYS Couldn't make a Computer System and Staff enough to make it work, so they make conceded with a Memorandum of Understanding that until such a time as they could create this system the Law would no go into effect. NOW the SP are being told to conduct the NICS Checks (instead of the FBI in Atlanta) and along with it the ammo checks, and a Fee will be charged for doing so, and given the wording used, it may be that one has to submit a Form and wait for it to be processed before you can take delivery of either gun or ammo.

As for Semi-automatics:IF you already own one, it's Grandfathered in, and it would be incumbent on Law Enforcement to make the case that you didn't own it prior to the instituting date... they know good and damned well that only a fraction of the People that own Guns have actual reciepts for them, besides it's not likely to be an issue unless you go way off the reservation and get busted.
 

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As for Semi-automatics:IF you already own one, it's Grandfathered in, and it would be incumbent on Law Enforcement to make the case that you didn't own it prior to the instituting date... they know good and damned well that only a fraction of the People that own Guns have actual reciepts for them, besides it's not likely to be an issue unless you go way off the reservation and get busted.

You have a lot more faith in the New York State Police than I do. Remember, the NYST Superintendent serves at the discretion of the governor. The NYS Troopers serve at the discretion of the Superintendent. I have 2 in my hunting club. I already know how they feel about the opportunity to arrest anyone for any kind of gun violation.
 

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Take pics of what you have with your phone before 9/4 just in case. If you can’t produce a receipt and you get jammed up for some reason, show them a pic. All pics taken on cell phones will have a time/date stamp. I have all kinds of pics on my phone, not for this reason but I can’t see why I couldn’t hurt. I actually document my weapons with serial numbers in case of theft. Better to be safe than sorry.
 

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Take pics of what you have with your phone before 9/4 just in case. If you can’t produce a receipt and you get jammed up for some reason, show them a pic. All pics taken on cell phones will have a time/date stamp. I have all kinds of pics on my phone, not for this reason but I can’t see why I couldn’t hurt. I actually document my weapons with serial numbers in case of theft. Better to be safe than sorry.
Innocent until proven guilty is the way it works. I would watch having photos because of the authorities gain access to your phone they then know what you have.
If you’re rifles were purchased through and FFL then they have a documented date of purchase and they can be pulled through the FFL.
This law sucks and will do nothing to stop criminals.
 

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I have not made up my mind yet if I will have this endorsement added to my pistol permit. I’m not comfortable with the government knowing I’m purchasing semi auto rifles with the way this state and the democrats are trending. I think at some point there will be confiscations of well we just need to come to your house to make sure you have them or look at your safe storage or ….. I’m not doing that. I have what I need already so I think I may avoid it. My wife will be getting her pistol permit and I may have her add it to hers, but I doubt it. I just don’t want the hassle or what could potentially come down the pipe line. Watch what you do and say in NYS folks.
 
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