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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well tomorrow is my Court date to appeal the denial for my pistol permit.

My lawyer called today to get some more info. The reason why I was denied was due to I did not put 2 arrest i had in 2004 and 2005. I did not put them down because I did not know I was arrested. I had an unlicensed operation of a motor vehicle and unregistered motor vehicle . Both times I was not put in handcuffs, not read my rights, not fingerprinted, not taking to the police station. I sat in the back of the car while they did the tickets and then let go. Sense the tickets were mistermeaners you are considered arrested. Went to court and the tickets were reduced. Therfore I did not know I was arrested.


So tomorrow will be interesting.
 

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Wow, omg. I had been pulled over last year for routine traffic stop, got an unlicensed motor vehicle. I was mortified, told the officer how sorry i was, that i really had no idea, how it was dads car and he was in hospital and usually very on top of these things. I didn't know registration had expired 1 week prior and he didn't put new sticker on before he ended up in hospital. That I should have looked at the registration before I drove the car and didn't think too and it was obviously my fault but I was terribly sorry. Was picking him up from hospital and he can't hoist himself into my suv so I took his car. Went to court, was dropped because it wasn't my car and because it was actually registered just not stickered. Judge was very nice about whole thing, I'm sure she could have made some charge stick if she wanted to, so I appreciate she just asked to see proof the car was registered and dropped it. Um, so that would be an arrest?? I thought we weren't supposed to report traffic incidents that are non-dwi.
Good luck, my thoughts are with you. My family is debating right now if that unregistered vehicle thing last year could be my reason for denial. What is the difference between a ticket and an arrest then? Wow.
 

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Traffic infractions are treated entirely different from misdemeanors, and don't go into any criminal record system, though the DMV will certainly keep track of any infractions that resulted in a conviction for that infraction (where points were assessed). I recently obtained my DMV Driver's abstract, and was surprised to see that a 2-point sign violation from nearly FOUR years ago was still on my DMV record. Other than that, my record was clean, no violations. I had always been under the impression that the traffic infractions were wiped after 18 months by the DMV, so much for that.

Misdemeanors do often involve arrests, once fingerprints and mugshots are taken, you're in the "system" and your arrest is on record permanently. If fingerprints/mugshots were not taken, then the misdemeanor(s) must've ended up on your DMV record, something that law enforcement certainly has access to and I bet they do check it.

I was certainly NOT aware that an expired registration could ever involve a misdemeanor ticket; in legal terms misdemeanors must be "willful", often people legitimately forget to renew their vehicle registrations and end up being pulled over and ticketed for it. Forgetting to renew a registration is NOT a willful act and therefore cannot fall under the category of "misdemeanor". That is why all of the threats on a jury summons are bunk - notice the terminology on the summons - "willfully not serving", just forgetting is NOT willful and therefore charges could never actually be filed. If you write a letter to the judge saying you hate the judicial system and that you refuse to serve jury duty, you are willfully refusing and therefore can be charged. I can understand someone being charged with a misdemeanor if they are caught driving without a license because it is reasonable to assume that the person KNOWS they do not have a license and should not be operating a motor vehicle. An expired registration on the other hand can be much more easily overlooked. Good luck convincing a judge or jury that you "forgot" you didn't have a license before making the decision to operate a motor vehicle.

When you receive a traffic ticket, you should notice that there are 3 options on there - traffic infraction (non-criminal), misdemeanor, and felony. If your ticket says anything other than "traffic infraction", it needs to be reported on your permit application, since it does state that violations *other than* traffic infractions must be reported, not just arrests. However, it would be easy to make the case that the terminology was confusing and since you were not technically arrested you did not list it on your permit application.
 

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I had the same thing happen to me when the officer called and did my interview he inquired about 2 arrests in 2002 for unlicensed operation. (driving on a suspended license) (long story short unemployed and didn't pay tickets).

In any event I was completely unaware i was "arrested". In once case I was issued a ticket and sent on my way, the next The vehicle was towed and I was told to get a ride home.

Never was i printed, or cuffed. or even in a patrol car. Both were plead down to not having my license with me. the interviewing officer was seemed very concerned about the details of these issues. I explained them truthfully and explained that I didn't know that was considered an arrest. I didn't mention it on the call, but I work in the "legal industry" I know what being arrested is, and I certainly not arrested on the dates they were claiming.

Now there are 4 charges possible depending on the number of outstanding tickets you have, driving w/o a license, AUO 1, AUO 2 and AUO 3. mine were AUO 1, and Driving w/o license.

I explained that I did not intend to mislead them, I went to the DMV and had them print out my record and I noted any infractions that were still listed and anything I had recollection of. I know I had a questionable past and did everything I could reasonably think of to give an accurate representation of my record. I got my DMV abstract and went to the county court house and got records for misdemeanor conviction I had in 01.

The interviewing officer was not impressed at all with our conversation, but apparently nothing they could hang me on.
 

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Technically you are "under arrest" during any LEO encounter that you aren't free to walk away from.
 

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It's been so long since I filled out my permit application I can't remember, but didn't it say not to put traffic violations? I would have put them. Sigh. I of course had none until my 30's due to aforementioned perky assets. Next time I fill out a government form I will write my entire life story just so they can't say I didn't disclose whatever it is they are looking for.


"and in kindergarten I got sent to the corner for coloring outside the line, then in middle school I got detention for popping a gum bubble in chemistry...and in my 30's I drove a registered car without the proper sticker but got a walk..."
 

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You should be OK, if the judge isn't a dedicated anti, or in bed with the issuing office. Unfortunately, politicians will back each other's play more often than rule against one of the club. Take it to the top, if need be, get SCOPE or someone involved....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Im very nervous :( going in front of any judge in a court room is always intimidating. A friend of mine had to go through the appeal process and got it. But did not find out until 2 weeks after his court date.
 

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Erik - Good luck buddy, you'll do fine!
 

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You should be fine. I hate to admit it, but I had 2 of those AUO's (2002 & 2003). Both times I was let go and told to go to court--those were my reckless motorcycle days when I thought I could do anything, lol. I had a lawyer take care of them, but I remember he told me that I was technically "arrested" because they were misdemeanors. When I filled out my pistol permit app, I made sure to put the dates down for them and I was never even questioned about them when I had the phone interview. I got my permit with no problem--I was shocked! I had even called my lawyer to tell him I put my permit in and that I might be needing him for the appeal because of those misdemeanors.

I have had friends get denied permits for no apparent reason, but yet when they went to the appeal, they got them. Seems weird how they do it, but don't sweat it, you should be ok.
 

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You didnt threaten the judge with a stick did you?
I hear they dont like that....
 

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If you feel that way, you need to hire an attorney to go there with you. I haven't met anyone that had an attorney that got denied. Obviously, I don't mean convicted felons, etc. I mean people that were just denied for a stupid reason and then when they went with their attorney, they got it. It might have cost an extra $300-$500, but they got it.
 
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