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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
On a mild February afternoon, Fiorino, 25, decided to walk to an AutoZone on Frankford Avenue in Northeast Philly with the .40-caliber Glock he legally owns holstered in plain view on his left hip. His stroll ended when someone called out from behind: "Yo, Junior, what are you doing?"

Fiorino wheeled and saw Sgt. Michael Dougherty aiming a handgun at him.

What happened next would be hard to believe, except that Fiorino audio-recorded all of it: a tense, profanity-laced, 40-minute encounter with cops who told him that what he was doing - openly carrying a gun on the city's streets - was against the law.

"Do you know you can't openly carry here in Philadelphia?" Dougherty asked, according to the YouTube clip."Yes, you can, if you have a license to carry firearms," Fiorino said. "It's Directive 137. It's your own internal directive."

The cops, department officials later admitted, were wrong. They didn't know that a person who has a license to carry a firearm can openly carry it in the city.

But the story doesn't end there. How could it?

After Fiorino posted his recordings on YouTube, they went viral. Members of pro-firearms forums on the Web took a particular interest in the incident.

The Police Department heard about the YouTube clips. A new investigation was launched, and last month the District Attorney's Office decided to charge Fiorino with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct because, a spokeswoman said, he refused to cooperate with police.

Fiorino said he plans to sue the city whenever his criminal case is resolved.
Full Story here

Cute how they didn't charge him with anything until after he released the recordings and made them look stupid.

Edit: There seems to be a thread on PAFOA about this too, supposedly started by the guy who was involved in this incident.
 

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wow - that is quite the scary situation.

It is good to see that the department went ahead and gave a refresher on gun rights so things like this won't happen again.

I certainly would hope that there would be some disciplinary action about the language used and immediately drawing on him, that isn't standard procedure is it?

The YouTube incase anyone is interested.
 

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Followed this some on Glock Talk, They actually sent the swat team to arrest him at his place of employment. Luckily he was not in at the time and got word. He surrendered via his lawyer and was detained overnight pending arraignment. My feelings on the whole issue is they were both wrong, the police for enforcing laws that don't exist and over reacting, secondly the OC was in the wrong to argue in that place and time. When a police officer has his weapon drawn and pointed at you, you should comply and complain later.
Further the Fiorino had 2 previous OC encounters with philly PD. First time he was disarmed and arrested, his weapon seized and his ammo destroyed. It took him 2 months to get it back, the second time he was again arrested and disarmed. The Memo he refers to is a result of his own complaints to the department.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
When a police officer has his weapon drawn and pointed at you, you should comply and complain later.
This is the only thing I scratched my head about. I'm all for taking a stand for our civil liberties but I don't think I'd be explaining to the LEO how his understanding of the law is inaccurate when I'm staring at the business end of his service weapon.
 

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I saw the thread on PAFOA. I guess they just had a big rally with OC'ers down in Philly because of this. I bet when this is all said and done he will get a hefty amount from the city in a civil suit.
 

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What a mess. There are a great couple of segments on this type of situation on The Best Defense in at least one of them the good guy gets shot for doing what this guy did.

I can't imagine staging a 2nd amendment debate in this way, but that's just me.
 

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Based on the philly story, I just spent 20 minutes watching videos of open-carry guys getting into all kinds of drama like this.

Whatever you think of it--it appears to be a helluva drama magnet, no doubt, especially if you get argumentative with the PD when they arrive.
 

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Cop should loose his job, DA should loose their job and Bar licensee. City should be sued just short of going completely bankrupt. Both should be hammered in civil trials, and cop should have criminal charges placed against him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Some of the people on PAFOA are rather hard core. I recall reading a thread there a long time ago where one of their open carry rallies was kicked out of a chain restaurant (an Olive Garden or TGI Fridays if I recall) that had previously given them permission to be there. Apparently management was a little bit upset when one of the people attending the rally showed up with an AR-15 slung over his shoulder. I'm all for exercising our rights and making political statements but it does seem a tiny bit excessive to bring a long gun with you to a restaurant. What are you going to do, take it with you to the salad bar and bathroom every time you go? Most of the people in that thread couldn't understand why the restaurant management had an issue with this.

In this particular instance I do feel for the guy. Seems like he has been down this road before and could avoid all of this hassle by covering up his gun but I don't think he should have to do that if open carry is legal. The PPD needs better training while the political leadership of that city needs to accept the fact that PA has a preemption law and stop trying to undermine it. I don't see him winning big bucks from a civil action here but it would be nice if he could secure an injunction that would put a stop to the shenanigans of Philadelphia.
 

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Just goes to show that discretion is better than being as obvious as a screen door on a submarine
 

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I just don't understand why the response is to respond with a firearm drawn on this man. I am willing to bet that 99.999% of the time that a criminal doesn't open carry.

As for the man's actions at that point I would suggest until either you or I are put in the same situation we would not know how we would react. It sounded like he was trying to diffuse the situation by reminding the PO that he is a human with a name, that is the reaction of someone who is afraid for their life.
 

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I grew up in the Phila burbs. The law is retarded. In order to open carry in Phila you need to have a permit to carry concealed. It's fine with me if they want to check to make sure someone has the proper documents, but to treat every open carry like a bank robbery is just uncalled for. Whats even worse it that if you get arrested, even if it's wrongful, not your fault, dismissed, etc... You will always have to divulge it at some point in your life for something, and never look good for you, even if you did nothing wrong.

Every so often I open carry when back in the burbs visiting my family... I have even open carried in banks with no issues.

Oh well... Such is life.
 

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I'm all for exercising our rights and making political statements but it does seem a tiny bit excessive to bring a long gun with you to a restaurant. What are you going to do, take it with you to the salad bar...
I don't know about you, but I've seen the thin veneer of civilized behavior quickly crumble at some salad bars.
 

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That nice lady from Texas really could have used her gun that day she and her parents were at the restaurant methinks.
Too bad the law didn't allow it at the time and she got to watch family and others die right in front of her as a result.
 

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I don't know about you, but I've seen the thin veneer of civilized behavior quickly crumble at some salad bars.
LMAO.....

I see now the LT in charge of the gun permits is saying the wording on the applications is old and was supposed to be changed a long time ago as far as the gun must be concealed in city limits.
 

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When I first got my permit for PA, I read that you could carry open EXCEPT for in 'cities of the first class' such as Philly and Pittsburgh. I thought it was pretty clear then as it seems to be pretty clear now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Dave,

You can carry openly in "cities of the first class" (i.e., Philadelphia), you just need a valid license to carry firearms (LTCF):

§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time
upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of
the first class unless:

(1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
(2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
Straight from the PA Legislature's website. There's also a letter from the Philly DA on this matter.

In the rest of PA you can carry openly without a LTCF but the right is limited to the point that makes sense to get a LTCF even if you never intend to carry concealed. As an example it's illegal to have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle without a LTCF; so if you want to open carry without one you need to keep the gun cased for transport, then retrieve and load it when you exit the vehicle. With a PA LTCF you can keep the gun loaded and on your hip; concealed or carried openly, doesn't matter.

Philadelphia is the only "city of the first class" in Pennsylvania. Pittsburgh isn't one nor is Harrisburg or any other large city. These special requirements only apply whilst in Philadelphia.
 
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