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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Firing 150 rounds every 6 months does not build proficiency.

I fire 100-200 rounds every week.

Guess who likely is a better shot?
 

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Them:D

Maybe if they had lighter triggers they could hit their targets easier.
Our locals fired over 100 shots at the hotel shooting not long ago. The hit ratio was not all that great to say the least. Even shot the poor dog that was near him (on accident). One officer was hit with friendly fire in the arm. They have standard glock triggers...
 

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In December 2011, NYPD had 36,600 sworn employees. If they only qualified once a year, that would be 100 employees every day, 365 days a year. But since they qualify twice a year, that's 200 quals every day. That doesn't take into account the days when the range is closed for things like remediation, ESU use, or academy training.

There literally are not enough hours in the day to do much more than throw a few rounds on paper and send people on their way.

Their qual course is 50 rounds, plus 45 rounds for practice. Let's round it up to 100. That's 20k rounds daily, or 7.3 million rounds of ammo annually. Just for qualifications. That doesn't take into account the rounds burned by range staff or ESU. The real number is probably closer to 10 million.

And this doesn't even take into account the firearms training that the recruits receive in the academy.

I am FULLY on board with getting NYPD more training. More training is never a bad thing. But the big questions are: when? Where? How? And with what money?
 

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Our locals fired over 100 shots at the hotel shooting not long ago. The hit ratio was not all that great to say the least. Even shot the poor dog that was near him (on accident). One officer was hit with friendly fire in the arm. They have standard glock triggers...
Well I can tell you that 10lb trigger pulls do not help! LOL! Ummm what hotel shooting?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In December 2011, NYPD had 36,600 sworn employees. If they only qualified once a year, that would be 100 employees every day, 365 days a year. But since they qualify twice a year, that's 200 quals every day. That doesn't take into account the days when the range is closed for things like remediation, ESU use, or academy training.
Dunno how big their range is - but assuming each qualification takes an hour - that's 8-9 per hour. So a 10-12 stall range could handle that easily if they do it round the clock. Looking at aerial photos of Rodmans Neck (where the NYPD range is located) - they can easily handle that.
 

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In December 2011, NYPD had 36,600 sworn employees. If they only qualified once a year, that would be 100 employees every day, 365 days a year. But since they qualify twice a year, that's 200 quals every day. That doesn't take into account the days when the range is closed for things like remediation, ESU use, or academy training.

There literally are not enough hours in the day to do much more than throw a few rounds on paper and send people on their way.

Their qual course is 50 rounds, plus 45 rounds for practice. Let's round it up to 100. That's 20k rounds daily, or 7.3 million rounds of ammo annually. Just for qualifications. That doesn't take into account the rounds burned by range staff or ESU. The real number is probably closer to 10 million.

And this doesn't even take into account the firearms training that the recruits receive in the academy.

I am FULLY on board with getting NYPD more training. More training is never a bad thing. But the big questions are: when? Where? How? And with what money?
No excuse. The .gov is the first one to cry foul when we get our CCWs and "restrict" them until people get training and classes and all that, but when it comes to them "Well, uh, we just don't have enough hours."

Yet people still spew "Well cops should be the one ones with guns because they get training."
 

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Would love to see your hit percentage when you are in an actual gun battle with a perp who is actively shooting at you and you are both returning fire and trying to go for cover and you are in an city setup. Easy to say you would be a better shot. Even our military guys miss and they practice with their firearms. And its a 12lb trigger pull
 

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Would love to see your hit percentage when you are in an actual gun battle with a perp who is actively shooting at you and you are both returning fire and trying to go for cover and you are in an city setup. Easy to say you would be a better shot. Even our military guys miss and they practice with their firearms. And its a 12lb trigger pull
They hit 9 innocent people against a single bad guy.

1 or 2 perhaps yeah, in stress I would think so. 9 is too much for 1 guy. Imagine if it was something like 2 shooters. 1/4 of NYC would be killed!
 

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Really? And your last gun battle was?? On a crowded city street where typical New Yorkers stop and watch what the cops are doing when the bulltets start flying its amazing more aren't hit. But hey keep shooting the paper and let's hope it never happens.
 

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We should conduct a test where a single person is shooting at a paper bad guy target and we can put numerous "innocent civilian" targets all around the "perp" and the the shooter has to return fire while running to save his and his partners behinds all running for cover and we can see how many innocents get hit. But take into account we need to introduce a life or death stress.
 

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people are negative about NYPD because only negative is all over the news.

A couple months ago this off duty hero stopped a crime, took a bullet and then took care of business... Suspects arrested in NYPD shooting in the Bronx; officer promoted | 7online.com

what simulator will reenact the pressure of an active shooter scenario IFO the Empire state building in the middle of the day with 5k + people walking around? I am not saying do not train and that any officer can ever receive too much training, but lets be realistic and cut a little slack for the situations at hand.
 

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Really? And your last gun battle was?? On a crowded city street where typical New Yorkers stop and watch what the cops are doing when the bulltets start flying its amazing more aren't hit. But hey keep shooting the paper and let's hope it never happens.
Why would I use my last gun battle? That would be useless. Why not look at other incidents of police related shootings and tell me how often 9 innocent people are hit. How people can stick up for the corrupt Bloomers gestapo when they prove time and time again to be greatly incompetent is beyond me. Nope, not all of them are, but when you have a dictator running them as if they are man, that is hilarious.

Could you even begin to image what would happen if I shot 9 innocent people in saving my life/the life of others? I would get life in prison!
 

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I am asking about your last gun battle cause I feel it probably has never happened and I agree with mdx police can never train to much and the good news hardly ever makes the papers unfortunately.
 

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I am asking about your last gun battle cause I feel it probably has never happened and I agree with mdx police can never train to much and the good news hardly ever makes the papers unfortunately.
My last gun battle is completely and totally irrelevant. It's an ad-hominem attack that has nothing to do with the situation presented.
 

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Really? And your last gun battle was?? On a crowded city street where typical New Yorkers stop and watch what the cops are doing when the bulltets start flying its amazing more aren't hit. But hey keep shooting the paper and let's hope it never happens.
Maybe some officers need more training and maybe some are not cut out for the stress the job entails at times. It's not a career for everyone. Did you even read the article?

"Some of Mr. Kelly's troops disagree, going so far as to approach reporters with unsolicited views. One officer, who joined the force with a military background and spoke anonymously because he feared reprisals, said the problem was training. The department has "a factory line" approach to weapons training in which officers "get the basics - breathing, trigger control," but not much else, he said. "It's very brief, minimal."
"Firearms training is important - it's very important," the officer concluded. "And it's something that is not taken seriously."

They seem to have a pretty laid back attitude on firearms training.
 

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Maybe some officers need more training and maybe some are not cut out for the stress the job entails at times. It's not a career for everyone. Did you even read the article?

"Some of Mr. Kelly's troops disagree, going so far as to approach reporters with unsolicited views. One officer, who joined the force with a military background and spoke anonymously because he feared reprisals, said the problem was training. The department has "a factory line" approach to weapons training in which officers "get the basics - breathing, trigger control," but not much else, he said. "It's very brief, minimal."
"Firearms training is important - it's very important," the officer concluded. "And it's something that is not taken seriously."

They seem to have a pretty laid back attitude on firearms training.
That's the problem, but they will harp on the citizens for not getting enough. The anti gun crowd (and what place is more anti gun than NYC) didn't say "Only the cops should have guns because they get the training!" it would not be such a big deal. They should absolutely strive for more, but it would not be a big deal. But given that the figurehead for anti-gunners has his personal army that acts in this manner and yet attacks the citizens and even NATIONAL GUARD for their gun practices, this is much worse.
 
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