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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
To anyone interested in the ongoing battle with NYC Pistol Licensing as it relates to the Premise Permit and lack of ability to travel out of the city or state to shoot, compete, or attend training classes.
My lawyer initiated a an Article 78 proceeding in 10/2013. In July 2014, Judge Michael Stallman completed his analysis and verdict and ruled against us. Paperwork for the notice of appeal has been submitted, but we are waiting to see what happens with the NYSRPA's similiar case in September before requesting an appeal date.

Below is the link for "Sgueglia vs Kelly" with the petition document and the judges ruling. The logic he used is mind numbing to say the least and once again our rights as free citizens are being violated by the courts and NYC.

Comments / Questions are welcomed.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101407-2013
 

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Essentially, this type of license does not contemplate that there are serious competitive shooters amongst those who reside in the City of New York. Instead, this type of license is really geared towards someone who wants to keep a handgun in his/her home for self-protection. Thus, he or she is content with the restriction as to use of pistol ranges within the City limits.
Well there you have it, you're content. What an *******.
 

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gotta love circular logic.

impose unreasonable restriction ----> citizen abides by restriction to avoid prosecution/has no other choice-----> officials say that because the citizen was abiding by the restriction it is reasonable -------> restriction upheld.

That makes about as much sense as banning two liter sodas.
 

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Sorry to hear this, but thanks for sharing the verdict. Do you know what the status is on the NYSRPA case right now?

I'm beginning to think I should take up IDPA, then switch residency back to NYC. See if the ridiculous courts could say I was not "aggrieved" then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also trying to get the NRA-ILA and SAF involved in the appeal. Sent them emails with the link for the case and hoping that maybe they will think about supporting all us NYC license holders for a change. Real tired of seeing no one willing to take on the NYPD and NYC Mayor and get some of our rights back. How disgraceful is it in this day and age that free citizens cannot travel to compete in a shooting sport and/or take a training class outside NYC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
NYSPRA case is in front of the judge again on either Sept 12th or 17th. That is the last update I saw.
 

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As SCOSGt said this is a very winnable case ! There are some serious flaws in the decision by the judge ! I would be hounding SAF as Allen got lib always like shooting down over reaching laws . IMO that would be a better avenue to proceed upon as they really run for this .
 

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NYSPRA case is in front of the judge again on either Sept 12th or 17th. That is the last update I saw.
Where did you see that date?

Only update on the nysrpa website says the judge was supposed to rule on the motion for summary judgement in mid July.

My guess is the corrupt judge is trying to figure out a way to rule against us - since he already admitted he was waiting on the Osterweil case to be decided.

Well we "won" that...so the judge has to craft a new reason to screw us.

Guaranteed.
 

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Hey, Dave. Just read through the NYSRPA papers filed in August. It lists the court date as follows:

Date, Time, and Place of Hearing on Motion:
September 17, 2014 at 12:00 p.m.
U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York
500 Pearl Street, New York, NY 10007-1312
Courtroom of the Hon. Robert W. Sweet

Does anyone know if these proceedings are open to the public? Also, looks like the first plaintiff is in almost exactly the same circumstances as I would be in, if I were to start competitive shooting, then move to the city. I agree with the sgt (amazing!) this one looks very winnable. (Plus, it's on my husband's birthday. That has to be good luck!)
 

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Thanks swilliams!

I bet we will soon see:
"No burden exists since practice ranges are available in nyc currently."

Judge will disregard the fact that the ranges cost hundreds a year...and many people could target shoot free on land upstate... or at cheaper ranges...

He will also say target competitions are not covered by the 2nd...even though we all know practice is Paramount to the right to keep and bear arms.
 

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"No burden exists since practice ranges are available in nyc currently."

Judge will disregard the fact that the ranges cost hundreds a year...and many people could target shoot free on land upstate... or at cheaper ranges...

He will also say target competitions are not covered by the 2nd...even though it is Paramount to the right to keep and bear arms.
I didn't read the entire thing, but it looks like NYSRPA is arguing that 1st amendment rights are being violated in not allowing NYC residents to go to a range of their own choosing.
 

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From the decision
Petitioner does not claim a violation of the second amendment to the United States Constitution.
How was the 2A not the central point of the lawsuit? At least the judge went on to consider it. Sort of.

But the analysis pretty much just says that self defense in the home is the "only" right protected by the 2A. I hate this argument. It is coming up frequently and is false. The supreme court did not aay that the 2A only protects self defense in the home. They said it does protect self defense in the home and that this is the "most acute" place/reason. 'Most' and 'only' are very different words. 'Most' would imply other lesser ones and is not exclusive.

It might be true to say that self defense in the home is the only situation that the Supreme Court has definitively decided. But I don't think that's even true. A judge saying -well, the supreme court has not expressly said it so I'm not going to think about it at all - is a totsl cop out. Instead they just misrepresent the courts ruling to make it sound like they don't have a choice. Just aweful.
 

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Hey, Dave. Just read through the NYSRPA papers filed in August. It lists the court date as follows:

Date, Time, and Place of Hearing on Motion:
September 17, 2014 at 12:00 p.m.
U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York
500 Pearl Street, New York, NY 10007-1312
Courtroom of the Hon. Robert W. Sweet

Does anyone know if these proceedings are open to the public? Also, looks like the first plaintiff is in almost exactly the same circumstances as I would be in, if I were to start competitive shooting, then move to the city. I agree with the sgt (amazing!) this one looks very winnable. (Plus, it's on my husband's birthday. That has to be good luck!)
yes..
you will need gov't i.d. to access the Courthouse
 

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To anyone interested in the ongoing battle with NYC Pistol Licensing as it relates to the Premise Permit and lack of ability to travel out of the city or state to shoot, compete, or attend training classes.
My lawyer initiated a an Article 78 proceeding in 10/2013. In July 2014, Judge Michael Stallman completed his analysis and verdict and ruled against us. Paperwork for the notice of appeal has been submitted, but we are waiting to see what happens with the NYSRPA's similiar case in September before requesting an appeal date.

Below is the link for "Sgueglia vs Kelly" with the petition document and the judges ruling. The logic he used is mind numbing to say the least and once again our rights as free citizens are being violated by the courts and NYC.

Comments / Questions are welcomed.

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/iscroll/SQLData.jsp?IndexNo=101407-2013
Win or lose, we all must join in thanking you for your patriotic efforts and wish you God Speed to a victory on appeal.
 

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The corrupt judge waiting on Osterweil, has reportedly retired and avoided making a ruling on this case. A new judge has been appointed and was ordered by a higher court to rule from the papers(Summary Judgement) one way or the other on September 17, 2014. Hold on tight when we get to the top of this ride:rolleyes:
 

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The corrupt judge waiting on Osterweil, has reportedly retired and avoided making a ruling on this case. A new judge has been appointed and was ordered by a higher court to rule from the papers(Summary Judgement) one way or the other on September 17, 2014. Hold on tight when we get to the top of this ride:rolleyes:
Good info thanks.

I am sure the NEW corrupt judge will screw it up somehow as well.
 

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The corrupt judge waiting on Osterweil, has reportedly retired and avoided making a ruling on this case. A new judge has been appointed and was ordered by a higher court to rule from the papers(Summary Judgement) one way or the other on September 17, 2014. Hold on tight when we get to the top of this ride:rolleyes:
Remind me. What exactly is the case? Ostereil v Bartlett was about part year residents qualifying for a handgun permit as a resident. The 2nd CA already ruled that part year residents do quslify and csn get permits under NY law. From what I know this case is just working out motions on attorney fees at this point. Is there another case? Is there another appeal somewhere?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The case is NYSRPA vs NYC Title 38, which is the same as my fight to get NYC Premise Permit holders to be able to shoot, compete, and train outside of NYC. The NYSRPA argues the case differently than my lawyer did and I think their case is in federal court where as mine is in state supreme court.
 
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