[DaveM4P99]

So...just doing some research ...

The "Licensing Division Rules" link: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/permits/title38_rcny_rev2010_11.pdf

All the sections that say you need a FDNY permit to store more than 200 rounds ONLY apply to FFLs / Dealers / Organizations that possess rifles, shotguns and ammo. Not individual permit holders.

OK...so on to the actual NYC admin code / fire code...http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/fi...08_amended_ll37_41_64_2009_final_complete.pdf

105.6 Required permits

Omitted extra stuff...

Explosives. A permit is required to store, handle, use or sell explosives as follows:
1. Store, sell or offer for sale any amount of black powder and smokeless powder.
2. Store, sell or offer for sale any amount of blasting caps.
3. Store, sell or offer for sale 200 or more shells of small arms ammunition.

But I think this may only apply to FFLs/dealers who sell ammo...But I am not sure...

OK...so later in the FDNY fire code there is this conflicting info that appears to completely allow personal small arms storage in accordance with section 3306...

3301.3 Prohibited materials, operations and facilities.
3301.3.1 Explosives. It shall be unlawful to:

Omitted extra stuff...

4. Store, handle or use any explosive in a residential building, or within 100 feet (30 480
mm) thereof, except for approved blasting operations and lawful storage of small arms
ammunition for personal use and not for resale in accordance with Section 3306.

So on to section 3306...

SECTION FC 3306
STORAGE OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION AND PRIMERS, BLACK POWDER AND
SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS

3306.1 General. Indoor storage and display of small arms ammunition, black powder and
smokeless propellants shall comply with the requirements of this section and NFPA 495.

3306.2 Storage. The storage and display of small arms ammunition and primers, black powder
and smokeless propellants shall be as set forth in Sections 3306.2.1 through 3306.7. 449

3306.2.1 Occupancy restrictions. It shall be unlawful to store small arms ammunition and
primers, black powder and smokeless propellants in any premises, building, structure or
facility, except as authorized by this section.

3306.2.2 Quantity restrictions. It shall be unlawful to store small arms ammunition and
primers, black powder or smokeless propellants in quantities exceeding the following:
1. 300,000 loaded shells containing shot for shotguns not exceeding No. 8 gauge;
2. 2,500,000 cartridges for pistols;
3. 500,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber not larger than 0.45 inch (137.2 mm);
4.10,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber not larger than 0.5 inch (152.4 mm);
5. 5,000 cartridges for rifles of a caliber between 0.5 inch (152.4) and 0.58 inch (176.8
mm);
6. 5,000 blank cartridges of a caliber not larger than 0.45 inch (137.2 mm);
7. 3,000,000 primers for central fire ammunition;
8. 6,000,000 percussion caps, or primers, without anvils;
9. 250 pounds (113.5 kg) aggregate of black powder or smokeless propellant;
10. Any storage in excess of the amounts authorized by permit

And

3306.4 Storage in Group R-3 (1-2 family home) occupancies
Where small arms ammunition and primers are
stored together in Group R-3 occupancies, it shall be unlawful to store a combined quantity of
more than 200, counting each round of ammunition and each primer separately.

So this doesn't apply unless you are storing primers AND completely assembled ammo together.

So what do we think?

 

[.357MagNYC]

Great post, very valuable resource. It does seem that the 200-round limit only applies to dealers based on the NYPD License Division Rules, Title 38. And even if you do apply the limit to individuals, it doesn't seem like it applies to residences aside from 1-2 family homes.

I honestly don't know how the NYPD would enforce this against individual licensees, anyway. They'd have to be conducting a search of your home, find over 200 rounds, and then write you up for a FDNY violation and revoke your license?

 

[Heuy]

Somehow, I kinda doubt that they left a loophole that non licensee NYC residents can store and/or transfer more ammuntion than a FFL / dealer in ammuntion.

 

[phauxtoe]

I think this is a typical NYC Money shakedown!
From what i understand is that you can have more ammo, but you must purchase a permit to do so.

 

[Embree Smith]

I think I would decline to contract with the Municipal Corporation known as NYC

 

[MDX]

some additional info from a thread on HK pro.


What's the FDNY 200 round rule?
FDNY fire codes state that you can only have 200 rounds of ammunition max in your home in NYC. Not 200 rounds of each caliber, it's 200 total - period.
Scroll down:
http://www.hkpro.com...-s-NYC-Gun-FAQ-

3306.4 Storage in Group R-3 occupancies. Where small arms ammunition and primers are
stored together in Group R-3 occupancies, it shall be unlawful to store a combined quantity of
more than 200, counting each round of ammunition and each primer separately.

R-3 one and two family dwelling, or adult and child care facilities that provide accommodation for five or fewer persons of any age for less than 24 hrs,

Might come down to zoning as well. the 2.5MM stuff is for vendors it seems

 

[Highlander]

<it shall be unlawful to store a combined quantity of
more than 200, counting each round of ammunition and each primer separately.>

So for 200 rounds it means 100 rounds of ammo and 100 primers in said 100 rounds of ammo. No 200 rounds as it sounds.

 

[Prominus]

Not sure about NYC but I do know some areas have fire codes on it. It could void your insurance payout if you were in violation of local fire codes.

 

[Embree Smith]

Not sure about NYC but I do know some areas have fire codes on it. It could void your insurance payout if you were in violation of local fire codes.

You are stating that your insurance coverage, which is a matter of contract, changes due to a municipal regulation ...??

 

[Prominus]

You are stating that your insurance coverage, which is a matter of contract, changes due to a municipal regulation ...??

I am not sure how it works really. Maybe there is a small clause in certain insurances? I responded on mutual aid to a fire a few towns away and it was due to a self installed wood stove. He informed his insurance of the woodstove but he had no permit to have it installed (It was improper and caused the fire) and there was no fire inspection from the fire chief.

Needless to say they did not pay.

 

[Embree Smith]

. .......was due to a self installed wood stove........ was improper and caused the fire) .

Needless to say they did not pay.

the pertinent Facts

 

[DaveM4P99]

I think some of you didn't read my post..

What I am saying is I don't think NYC actually limits individuals from storing over 200 rounds of ammo for personal use.

 

[.357MagNYC]

I think DaveM4P99 is right. His post nails it. The 200-round limit applies only to dealers, not individuals, and certainly not to apartment dwellers. If you're in the business of selling ammo, you need an FDNY permit. NYC regulates the hell out of all businesses, so this makes sense.

The NYC Gun Law thread on HKPro is full of errors, so I wouldn't use that as a source.

 

[MDX]

more sources flat out say 200 rounds is the limit then say there is no limit.

Keeping Your New York City Permits | New York City Guns

Ammunition You may not possess more than a total of 200 rounds of ammunition in your premises. Not 200 rounds of a certain caliber, not 200 rounds for each gun. Your TOTAL round count for ALL ammunition in your premises may not exceed 200 rounds. This is true for those with carry permits as well as premise permits. This is a NY Fire Department regulation. - See more at: Keeping Your New York City Permits | New York City Guns

How Much is 6,000 Rounds? Not Much, Gun Advocates Say - WNYC

Under the New York City Fire Code (NYC Admin Code Section FC 105), a person must also have an explosives permit to own or sell 200 or more rounds.
The city Fire Commissioner also issues "storage permits" to dealers who store and sell more than 200 rounds of ammunition.
The Firearms Policy Coordinator for New York City, Janey Rountree, rejects the idea that 6,000 rounds of ammunition is an insignificant amount.

it is definitely possible with the vagueness in the wording and laws that you are right and all these sources are incorrect.

 

[MDX]

House blaze sets off ammo in Flushing 2-family home • TimesLedger

Vivanco was arrested and charged with criminal possession of weapons, reckless endangerment and possession of more than 200 rounds of ammunition, an administrative code violation, police said.

 

[.357MagNYC]

^ Great find on that story! Hmmm, so they do enforce it against non-sellers, or at least they'll charge you with it. It does seem he was in an R-3, though, so still no word on apartments. I wonder if that particular charge held up?

Still, a fire is probably the only way they'd find your ammo, absent a search warrant.

FWIW, NYCGuns copies a lot of info right from HKPro, so I've found it to be similarly unreliable. (For instance, we do not "lease" our guns from the NYPD, they are our property, and we have a fundamental constitutional right to possess them.)

And no sense asking the License Division. I've heard from others that some at 1PP have said it only applies to businesses, while other employees/cops say it does apply to individuals. They have no clue what the law is, and will usually tell you "No, you can't" if you ever ask.

 

[MDX]

I am almost positive this applies to any bldg in the 5 boroughs. in apartments the chances of FDNY coming in your apartment are much higher. water , gas leaks, fires and etc. not that the FDNY is looking for this but the chances are higher than a freestanding home. Your apartment is adjacent to the fire apartment. guess what? your apartment is going to be searched, overhauled and etc. You have a stockpile of ammo and its found by someone who wants to be nosy...

again, I am not saying the FDNY is out on the hunt for this. If its in plain sight its going to get noticed during FDNY searches and or overhaul.

 

[Phibes]

Does anyone know anybody in the FDNY? I bet they would have a more clear answer than the NYPD. Is there a FDNY hotline to call for questions on code? Probably a bad idea, but maybe its possible to swing by a station and ask someone senior there...

 

[MDX]

You need to speak with a fire Marshall. They enforce it.

 

[MDX]

Technically you do lease your guns from NYPD. You must renew and pay to renew your permit. No permit no guns. Permits can be denied renewal.

With the safe act we are all going to be in the same boat now thanks to blowmo. No longer valid until revoked..