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Progressives and the corrupt (one in the same I suppose) don't use logic or real statistics and facts... its like their Kryptonite. So seeing that most people want something means nothing... they just pat themselves on the back, look in the mirror and tell themselves their God. Next November let's let them know the numbers do matter and they arent the sh*t they're just a piece of sh*t
 

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What impact has this had?
It has increased awareness locally and nationally about just how bad this law is.

It has affirmed to the citizenry that we are not alone and strengthened our resolve.

It has made the anti's nervous.

And It has hurt Cuomo politically.
 

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I'm the author of the site. I think its had the good impacts the mreaston listed, however, I'd like to see resolutions with teeth.

We're starting to see counties deny the state the use of their county seals in the pistol permit renewals. That's good, but again, mostly symbolic.

I've been considering what else might be possible and I think we could get some teeth by (a) passing local laws to mandate that juries be informed of their right to nullify laws which they believe are unconstitutional and (b) passing resolutions that any victimless gun law arrest will be treated as evidence that the sheriff/police department is overpaid and will result in an automatic 10% cut to their budget.

I haven't had a chance to run those ideas past a lawyer or someone knowledgeable about county governments, but I'd appreciate your thoughts.
 

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I'm the author of the site. I think its had the good impacts the mreaston listed, however, I'd like to see resolutions with teeth.

We're starting to see counties deny the state the use of their county seals in the pistol permit renewals. That's good, but again, mostly symbolic.

I've been considering what else might be possible and I think we could get some teeth by (a) passing local laws to mandate that juries be informed of their right to nullify laws which they believe are unconstitutional and (b) passing resolutions that any victimless gun law arrest will be treated as evidence that the sheriff/police department is overpaid and will result in an automatic 10% cut to their budget.

I haven't had a chance to run those ideas past a lawyer or someone knowledgeable about county governments, but I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Jury nullification is NOT the law of this State. It is NOT in the CJI jury instructions. If any Judge attempted to charge nullification, the DA would stop the trial and get an order from the Appellate Division, and the Judge would be risking censure or worse. They are bound to the law as it comes down from the Court of Appeals.

The only way you get Jury Nullification is for the Legislature to pass it. Good luck with that. It is on the top of their agenda, right after recall referendums.
 

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Jury nullification is NOT the law of this State. It is NOT in the CJI jury instructions. If any Judge attempted to charge nullification, the DA would stop the trial and get an order from the Appellate Division, and the Judge would be risking censure or worse. They are bound to the law as it comes down from the Court of Appeals.

The only way you get Jury Nullification is for the Legislature to pass it. Good luck with that. It is on the top of their agenda, right after recall referendums.
In fact the judge can't INFORM the jury that they can nullify, but a jury can find a defendant not guilty for any reason. We must begin to inform the people of this state as to their right to nullify.
 

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According to this site there are 52 counties that have filed an opposition to the SAFE Act and a number of towns, etc.
What impact has this had? None? Why?

NY SAFE Resolutions | Documenting County and Town resolutions on the NY SAFE act
There's a reason people here were so incensed a year ago. When those @#$bags passed this law, everyone knew it would be a long, hard road to get it gone, and it was a journey no one wanted to make.

The opposition to this law by other government entities WILL make a difference, I firmly believe that. For one it shows that law enforcement and county agencies that deal with both rifles and pistol permits are almost universally on our side, we are not going into court alone. And this law was aimed only at upstate, and both the published resistance to this law and amicus curiae briefs supporting us by these people are very much appreciated.

I look forward to next month. The delays are frustrating, but don't necessarily cast a shadow on our chances. NYSUT, the teacher's union filed suit against Cuomo's measly school tax cap over a year ago, and their case only started today.

Hold fast.
 

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In fact the judge can't INFORM the jury that they can nullify, but a jury can find a defendant not guilty for any reason. We must begin to inform the people of this state as to their right to nullify.
Yes and no. When sworn, Jurors agree to follow the law as the Judge gives it to them.
The Judge will instruct that they MUST acquit if the People did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. That is not any reason, it is quite specific.
The Judge will ALSO instruct the Jury that they MUST convict if the The People have proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

The instructions leave no wiggle room, and MOST jurors take their juror oath quite seriously.

I am not a lawyer, I spent 30 years of my life listening to Judges instruct jurors. So I know of what I speak.

That being said, once in the deliberating room the Jury can do whatever they please. If they hate the Defendant or his Lawyer they can choose to convict despite lack of evidence, and of course the Courts can address that failure to follow the law.
If the Jury chooses to acquit, whatever the reason, that is final (other than a new Federal charge in some cases).

What some of the folks here should understand is that if the jury sees you as a "nut", which would be the classic courtroom definition of someone who gets on the witness stand and tries to talk about his natural rights and government tyranny, they are going to sink you in a minute. that is the way it always works.

Unless you can get commie traitor William Kunstler out of his grave to defend you. In which case you have a shot.
 

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And before everyone jumps all over me, understand that a jury will be composed of generally "neutral" people and they are not going to like or accept any kind of a "rant" by the defendant. It does not work. They will ONLY want to hear evidence about innocence or guilt, not about how the government is impairing your "rights".

I am sorry if this does not fit your personal image of an American Court Room, but it is the reality of my 30 years of experience.

The Tresmond/NYSRPA lawsuits are a completely different animal than a criminal trial. By virtue of the fact that you are sitting in the Defendants chair the Court has basically already ruled that your rights were not violated.
 

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scosgt, Aquadoc: Then perhaps that first idea is a no-go. An alternate could be for a county to pay for jury nullification posters inside/outside the courtroom. That may be more doable?
NOT do-able at all.
Keep in mind that the State started the take over of the Courts in 1977. EVERYTHING flows from Albany and the Chief Administrator of the Courts.
Besides, think about what you suggest. Do you REALLY want Jurors to be told NOT to be fair and impartial? How would that guarantee anyone a fair trial?

ALL instructions to jurors, other than those that are considered "ministerial i.e. the bathrooms are on the left, proceed to courtroom 11 etc) MUST come from the Judge presiding and NO ONE ELSE.

There is NO chance that could ever happen.
 

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The sad part of this law or any other law that limits/curtails or takes away our rights is that the founding fathers specifically wrote a document so this could not happen. They designed a document so that no majority at some random point in time could dicatate to the minority and deprive them of their rights. How far we have fallen as a nation since our birth!
 

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NOT do-able at all.
Keep in mind that the State started the take over of the Courts in 1977. EVERYTHING flows from Albany and the Chief Administrator of the Courts.
Besides, think about what you suggest. Do you REALLY want Jurors to be told NOT to be fair and impartial? How would that guarantee anyone a fair trial?
I strongly support jury nullification and the Fully Informed Jury Association: Fully Informed Jury Association

ALL instructions to jurors, other than those that are considered "ministerial i.e. the bathrooms are on the left, proceed to courtroom 11 etc) MUST come from the Judge presiding and NO ONE ELSE.

There is NO chance that could ever happen.
FIJA has set up billboards before (links below) and they hand out literature in public areas outside courts. I would think Counties could do the same (perhaps not IN the courtroom, but certainly in areas jurors would pass on their way to court).

Jury Nullification Billboards Seen in and around DC Metro Stops
Liberty Activists Spearhead D.C. Jury Nullification Campaign
 

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I strongly support jury nullification and the Fully Informed Jury Association: Fully Informed Jury Association

FIJA has set up billboards before (links below) and they hand out literature in public areas outside courts. I would think Counties could do the same (perhaps not IN the courtroom, but certainly in areas jurors would pass on their way to court).

Jury Nullification Billboards Seen in and around DC Metro Stops
Liberty Activists Spearhead D.C. Jury Nullification Campaign
Look, I personally believe that Jury Nullification is the Law of the Land. The REASON that the Constitution demands that you can only lose life, liberty or property at the hands of a Jury is to take that option out of the hands of the Government. The Lord High Sheriff (or F U A C) can not incarcerate anyone unless and until a Jury gives the OK.

The problem here is that what is being suggested WILL be prosecuted as Obstructing Governmental Administration and/or Jury tampering.

You are perfectly free to purchase billboards and TV and Internet ads to further your belief in nullification. Once it is apparent that it is out there in any particular area, Judges will simply Voir Dire potential jurors on it, and disqualify anyone who gives even the slightest indication that they will consider nullification.

The premise that you could somehow put up signs or flyers in an area that juror are sure to pass by is a different matter, and would almost certainly lead to prosecution.

While we are all free to express our ideas, we can not actively interfere in the process. THAT can deny someone a fair trial.

The one BIG thing people in favor of nullification seem to ignore is that MOST criminal cases are the result of a CIVILIAN making a complaint to the Police. While you may not agree with drug laws or gun laws, and those are areas that are ripe for nullification, a very large number of jury trials involve allegations such as robbery, rape, burglary and murder. Unless you think rape should not be a crime, there is no place for any discussion of nullification in the majority of cases.
 

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The Tresmond/NYSRPA lawsuits are a completely different animal than a criminal trial. By virtue of the fact that you are sitting in the Defendants chair the Court has basically already ruled that your rights were not violated.
I hear Andy needs a few good body guards, you seem to fit the profile pretty well.
 

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It can be dangerous to advocate that jurors use their own personal feelings/convictions/prejudices instead of the facts and evidence with which they have been presented.

It can work both ways, you know.
 

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Support for SAFE act
  1. City of Rochester
  2. City of White Plains
  3. City of Yonkers
  4. Manhattan Community Board
  5. Tompkins County
  6. Town of Ithaca
  7. Town of Ramapo
  8. Village of Ellenville
  9. WestchesterCounty.......... I don't remember Westchester officially supporting the safe act
 
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