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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a copy/paste from another thread, but I think it is important enough to discuss.

Would you notify the police if you had to draw (but not shoot) in a defensive situation? Say you are at an ATM and someone comes up with a knife and shows it, you draw and they run scared. Any situation like that.

I can see arguments for both sides: YES!: You want to be the person that they talk to first and not the attacker saying "some guy just pulled a gun on me!" and NO!: We live in NY and pulling a gun in ANY situation may be "the big evil thing to do" and you might get your permit yanked.

I have often wondered that. RochPersDef, any input? Any LEOs/similar situations with input?
 

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Yes, why would you not report some guy with a knife that came after you at an ATM? Let the police find the dirtbag and get him off the street.

Plus why risk some scum calling the police saying you were the aggressor.
 

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Like any other crime,a person pulling a knife on another is just that.....A crime.....If someone put a rock through the window of your car in the middle of the night you would report that wouldn't you ?? No brainer...LOL......:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, why would you not report some guy with a knife that came after you at an ATM? Let the police find the dirtbag and get him off the street.

Plus why risk some scum calling the police saying you were the aggressor.
While I agree, the only hesitation comes from being in NY. "You pulled a gun on him!? You should have just given him your money and called us! Permit revoked!"
 

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Especially if it might be caught on tape, like at an ATM or bystander with a phone, ect. There are all kinds of charges you could file: attempted armed robbery, assault...I would call the cops in a heartbeat.
 

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Yes, I'd call, without hesitation. There are so many cameras around these days, so just expect the sh*t to hit the fan if you walk away without reporting the incident. Reporting it is the right thing to do - CCW permit holders are held to higher standards, anything you do in an attempt to CYA in this sort of situation is an easy excuse for a judge to flush your permit. It puts your character into question, and would be construed as poor judgment on your part.

In this sort of situation, make it clear during the 911 call that *you* were the victim, that you were forced to draw in order to defend yourself against a knife-wielding crack head looking to harm/kill you. Be simple and concise when working with the police to document the incident, stick to the facts...your very life and well-being were in jeopardy.
 

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Perfect Chris !!
 

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very well stated, chris. i understand where the OP was going with this due to the fear that the state new yorkistan pounds into the heads of lawful gun owners, but owning (ok, obsessing over) a walther does not make one james bond and therefore above the law. pulling a firearm on someone is considered use of deadly force even if the trigger isn't pulled and must be reported and explained to the authorities in order to stay on the right side of the law. it's a valid question with a simple answer for a truly law-abiding permit holder.

now let's further complicate the proposed scenario. your life is in what you deem justifiably imminent danger and you decide to draw. do you fire instantly to end the threat or hold them at bay with the hopes that they don't out-maneuver you somehow or have a buddy out of your line of sight who can get the drop on you if you hesitate? the possibilities are endless and mind-boggling, but it's still important to consider what tactics will be used in the event of an emergency. i myself prefer duck and cover (with stop, drop, and roll in an admirably close second place).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
very well stated, chris. i understand where the OP was going with this due to the fear that the state new yorkistan pounds into the heads of lawful gun owners, but owning (ok, obsessing over) a walther does not make one james bond and therefore above the law. pulling a firearm on someone is considered use of deadly force even if the trigger isn't pulled and must be reported and explained to the authorities in order to stay on the right side of the law. it's a valid question with a simple answer for a truly law-abiding permit holder.

now let's further complicate the proposed scenario. your life is in what you deem justifiably imminent danger and you decide to draw. do you fire instantly to end the threat or hold them at bay with the hopes that they don't out-maneuver you somehow or have a buddy out of your line of sight who can get the drop on you if you hesitate? the possibilities are endless and mind-boggling, but it's still important to consider what tactics will be used in the event of an emergency. i myself prefer duck and cover (with stop, drop, and roll in an admirably close second place).
I don't think anyone ever said they are above the law. It is just because NY the "Your permit can be revoked for any reason whatsoever" bull that this question even comes up. You could shoot yourself in the foot by calling was the original hesitation. Call and have them say "Oh yeah, should have just given him the money. You lose your permit and all your pistols."
 

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'could' is a dangerous word when it comes to the law and doing what's right. i'd reconsider your hesitance to be a stand-up citizen and responsible handgun owner based on your fear of losing your beloved P99. if you let the gub-ment have such a strong hold on you through fear and manipulation then the anti-gun powers-that-be have already won in your particular battle to preserve what's left of the second amendment. continue to use the light side of the force (ok, so i wrote that prior to considering the irony of your handle) and they can't use any action (or in this case inaction) against our cause by saying pistol permits encourage vigilante justice, etc. nah'mean? also, how guilty would you feel if you didn't report an armed perp and they wound up harming another innocent person later on when a patrol car or three in the area could've deterred said tragedy? all signs point toward make the call.
 

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I would call as well but if you are in a situation where you have to just show your weapon and the guy leaves then no, I would not call the police. The criminal is not going to call the police on you for showing him you have a gun.

James
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
'could' is a dangerous word when it comes to the law and doing what's right. i'd reconsider your hesitance to be a stand-up citizen and responsible handgun owner based on your fear of losing your beloved P99. if you let the gub-ment have such a strong hold on you through fear and manipulation then the anti-gun powers-that-be have already won in your particular battle to preserve what's left of the second amendment. continue to use the light side of the force (ok, so i wrote that prior to considering the irony of your handle) and they can't use any action (or in this case inaction) against our cause by saying pistol permits encourage vigilante justice, etc. nah'mean? also, how guilty would you feel if you didn't report an armed perp and they wound up harming another innocent person later on when a patrol car or three in the area could've deterred said tragedy? all signs point toward make the call.
Well it's more than just my P99. It would be any handguns, future handguns, and losing your right to carry all together. That's kind of a big deal. I too would most likely call, but I'm just not sure how it would go down after that.
 

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That's the problem. Law abiding citizens legally CCW, and god forbid we just draw, and look at the paranoia set in over a hypothetical. We balance on the fence of just reporting it in fear of losing a right for doing nothing wrong protecting ones self.
 

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pulling a firearm on someone is considered use of deadly force even if the trigger isn't pulled
Pulling a firearm on someone is not considered use of deadly force, it is considered Presentation of deadly force. I am of the mind set that if a knife welding fool approaches me with bad intents, I will draw. After the coward runs away, I will be on the phone reporting the crime that was just committed against me. I can not imagine any law enforcement agency pushing against me, the Victim. Same goes with any Judge out there, permit is not going to be pulled. That thought would never cross my mind. If for some reason, permit was pulled, so be it. I'm alive!
 

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A long, drawn-out legal battle is within the realm of possible outcomes once the hypothetical "attempted stabbing" situation is reported to the police. An anti-2A judge could revoke a CCW permit over the matter. However, it's not a likely outcome. (A) There would be legal fallout...groups such as SAF or the NRA would (hopefully) "assist" with one's defense in this situation and (B) Self-defense is established here since the assailant wielded a knife and the intent is undoubtedly to harm or kill (you) the victim.

Either way, calling 911 to report remains the right thing to do. Don't think of the legal BS that may occur after the fact, you have more control over this than you might think. Avoiding the "reporting to the police" aspect will potentially put the legal matters well out of your control.
 

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For all of you worried about getting your permit revoked, can you show one instance where that happened for someone legally defending themselves?
 

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I know of a case my coustomer a real estate agent collected rents from apt. complexs was accosted by 3 bab acting guys in a crime ridden area where the apt complex is he ran to his car got his gun b/g's ran off he got back to his office police waiting for him arrested on spot several thousand dollarsand month later exonerated permit suspended for 6 mo's
 

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We should call. Any citizen should call. The CCW holder in that situation should call right away and explain the truth.
Nobody should be more afraid of the police than the thieves themselves.
Then let the police do their job and find the SOB/s.
 
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