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Discussion Starter #1
I did not see this covered at all-

New state regulations bar people convicted of felonies from possessing muzzle-loading weapons

Sunday, April 8, 2012 - 4:52 pm

People convicted of felonies and serious offenses can no longer possess muzzle-loading weapons, according to the State Police Gun Investigation Unit from Troop B Headquarters in Ray Brook.

Revised regulations took effect Jan. 30 making it a misdemeanor for those convicted of felonies and serious offenses to possess those type weapons.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://northcountrynow.com/news/new-...weapons-054075
 

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And this is a problem why?
 

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Ehh...I have to play the "don't give them an inch" card. I seriously think it is a matter of WHEN as to "ANY misdemeanor equals NO firearms in NY at all." It is already some misdemeanors.
 

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They should give all the violent offenders muzzle loaders upon release, followed by a 3 minute head start across a 2000 yard field;)

My gut tells me the bigger picture is to get muzzle loaders reclassified to modern firearms just to twist the screw on us all.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
What bothers me are that if this is true there are thousands of guys with LEGAL muzzle loaders and hunting licenses are suddenly canddiates for arrest and parole violations and no one told them. No news coverage, nothing on this website,nothing from the DEC, no chance for voters to weigh in on this, no public comment and as soon as these guys file for a hunting license they can be rounded up and locked away without knowing that they were breaking any law - just a rule change with no input from the public and no prior knowledge.

It would be just as easy to say - "surprise all semi autos are now illegal and we are checking everyone who has a pistol permit!"

I'm all for punishment for crime, but creating a new crime without letting anyone know it is a crime would be very wrong indeed.
 

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I can agree personally that murders and the likes should not have guns.

What I still dont understand though legally speaking how peoples constitutional rights can be taken away AFTER they have done their time and are no longer on parole or probation? Is this power located in the constitution somewhere? What am I missing? Legally speaking as well case law that does not address where the power is given under the constitution is bad case law and shouldn't hold any weight (I concede that it will even though it shouldn't). I can see the point though that the state is granted that power in the constitution because its powers are not limited by it like the federal government but since the 2nd amendment is protected from states now as well I still dont see how legally speaking someone who has served their time can be denied a right (including voting).
So from a personal stand point I think its wrong they haven't given proper notice for people to comply and I am not against violent criminals being denied firearms but from a legal stand point I cant for the life of me figure out why this is legal.

Edit: This is the closest thing I have found that allows rights to be taken away but I still believe that after you serve your sentence your rights cannot continue to be denied and you should not have to do paperwork and ask the government for your rights back which are guarenteed by the Constitution.

This is from 5th amendment: nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
 

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full law found here Article 265 - Penal Law - Firearms and Other Dangerous Weapons

line 4

265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or

(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or

(3) He or she knowingly has in his or her possession a rifle, shotgun or firearm in or upon a building or grounds, used for educational purposes, of any school, college or university, except the forestry lands, wherever located, owned and maintained by the State University of New York college of environmental science and forestry, or upon a school bus as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and traffic law, without the written authorization of such educational institution; or

(4) He possesses a rifle, shotgun, antique firearm, black powder rifle, black powder shotgun, or any muzzle-loading firearm, and has been convicted of a felony or serious offense; or

(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States; or

(6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00, and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand of a police officer. Whenever a person is certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, a member of the police department to which such certification is made, or of the state police, shall forthwith seize any rifle or shotgun possessed by such person. A rifle or shotgun seized as herein provided shall not be destroyed, but shall be delivered to the headquarters of such police department, or state police, and there retained until the aforesaid certificate has been rescinded by the director or physician in charge, or other disposition of such rifle or shotgun has been ordered or authorized by a court of competent jurisdiction.

(7) He knowingly possesses a bullet containing an explosive substance designed to detonate upon impact.

(8) He possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use the same unlawfully against another.
 

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Are we also forgetting how easy it is to get a felony here in PRNY? Oh, enjoying that
Glock 17 you bought in PA? Well enjoy the felony!
 

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Just thought I would post some felonies that would cause someone to lose their right to firearms. Granted they shouldnt be breaking these laws but should they really not be allowed to defend themselves after serving their sentence?


§ 250.05 Eavesdropping. A person is guilty of eavesdropping when he unlawfully engages in wiretapping, mechanical overhearing of a conversation, or intercepting or accessing of an electronic communication. Eavesdropping is a class E felony.

§ 235.07 Obscenity in the first degree. A person is guilty of obscenity in the first degree when, knowing its content and character, he wholesale promotes or possesses with intent to wholesale promote, any obscene material. Obscenity in the first degree is a class D felony.

§ 156.30 Unlawful duplication of computer related material in the first degree. A person is guilty of unlawful duplication of computer related in the first degree material when having no right to do so, he or she copies, reproduces or duplicates in any manner: 1. any computer data or computer program and thereby intentionally and wrongfully deprives or appropriates from an owner thereof an economic value or benefit in excess of two thousand five hundred dollars; or 2. any computer data or computer program with an intent to commit or attempt to commit or further the commission of any felony. Unlawful duplication of computer related material in the first degree is a class E felony.

There are more but I think I got my point across. Also just keep in mind I think it started out
only restricting violent felons, then all felons, then all felons and serious misdemenors and
eventually it will be all misdemenors then probably include all violations lol. Keep in mind this is NYS
so I think all that is in the realm of possibility lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

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I got this from wikepedia for what its worth.

The word can also refer to a simple weapon consisting of a small bag filled with sand for use as a cudgel typically by criminals, or to the act of striking a person on the head with such a weapon. This usage is obsolescent in normal speech, appearing mainly in legal codes. However the verb form is extended metaphorically in several slang expressions
Sandbag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also the mere possession as defined above is only a class A misdemeanor.

I never knew what a "sand bag" was in regards to a weapon.
 

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Just thought I would post some felonies that would cause someone to lose their right to firearms. Granted they shouldnt be breaking these laws but should they really not be allowed to defend themselves after serving their sentence?

§ 250.05 Eavesdropping. A person is guilty of eavesdropping when he unlawfully engages in wiretapping, mechanical overhearing of a conversation, or intercepting or accessing of an electronic communication. Eavesdropping is a class E felony.

§ 235.07 Obscenity in the first degree. A person is guilty of obscenity in the first degree when, knowing its content and character, he wholesale promotes or possesses with intent to wholesale promote, any obscene material. Obscenity in the first degree is a class D felony.

§ 156.30 Unlawful duplication of computer related material in the first degree. A person is guilty of unlawful duplication of computer related in the first degree material when having no right to do so, he or she copies, reproduces or duplicates in any manner: 1. any computer data or computer program and thereby intentionally and wrongfully deprives or appropriates from an owner thereof an economic value or benefit in excess of two thousand five hundred dollars; or 2. any computer data or computer program with an intent to commit or attempt to commit or further the commission of any felony. Unlawful duplication of computer related material in the first degree is a class E felony.

...
This is another huge issue with our justice system. Felonies should be reserved for violent crimes, or crimes that directly cause physical or emotional harm to another in a quantifiable/measurable manner, or a component of the crime is forceful (i.e. many cases of theft are misdemeanors, but when the theft involves forceful entry into a home or business, felony).

§ 156.30
would result in thousands of college students graduating (or NOT graduating) as felons.

§ 235.07 - a felony classification for Obscenity?? Unf'ingbelievable. This law is vague to begin with, but quite a stretch to lock someone up and take away their rights for life for something that is undoubtedly relative from one individual to another.

I'm sure there are dozens of more examples of frivolous felonies (can't imagine how many there are that fall under "misdemeanor" classification). Example of what happens when society is overrun with laws that give gov't too much control arbitrarily and capriciously.
 

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What bothers me are that if this is true there are thousands of guys with LEGAL muzzle loaders and hunting licenses are suddenly canddiates for arrest and parole violations and no one told them. No news coverage, nothing on this website,nothing from the DEC, no chance for voters to weigh in on this, no public comment and as soon as these guys file for a hunting license they can be rounded up and locked away without knowing that they were breaking any law - just a rule change with no input from the public and no prior knowledge.

It would be just as easy to say - "surprise all semi autos are now illegal and we are checking everyone who has a pistol permit!"

I'm all for punishment for crime, but creating a new crime without letting anyone know it is a crime would be very wrong indeed.
Zactly.

.
 

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wow ill have to let my buddy know.. has drug charge from when he was 17... stupid stupid.. but he was just talking about wanting to hunt again.
 

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zeus i used to hunt with a 64 year old man who was convicted of assault in the 1970s

whenever we hunt i noticed he had 2 extra papers pinned to him, both are copies of a certificate of civil liability he recieved in the 1990s

he did his 6 months back then and after a while when his case was done and 5 or 10 years passed he was able to apply to have his rights as a citizen restored.

my point is if the person truly is a non threat they should just go and have the papers done!
otherwise they are criminals and deserve whatever happens to them
 

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hmmm i wonder if he knows about that. before i could tell him he went to a store and picked out a muzzle loader only to get denied...

hes a regular taxpaying guy like the rest of us.. just got a guilty by association wrong place wrong time incident...

ill pass on the info
 

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265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star";

so a set of oak knuckles is fine ?
 

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Originally Posted by groovy mike

What bothers me are that if this is true there are thousands of guys with LEGAL muzzle loaders and hunting licenses are suddenly canddiates for arrest and parole violations and no one told them. No news coverage, nothing on this website,nothing from the DEC, no chance for voters to weigh in on this, no public comment and as soon as these guys file for a hunting license they can be rounded up and locked away without knowing that they were breaking any law - just a rule change with no input from the public and no prior knowledge.

It would be just as easy to say - "surprise all semi autos are now illegal and we are checking everyone who has a pistol permit!"

I'm all for punishment for crime, but creating a new crime without letting anyone know it is a crime would be very wrong indeed.
and this is where I have a HUGE problem with that unbelievable statement "IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE"

I have always hated that statement, and this is one reason why. The government is about to throw a bunch of people in jail for basically no reason.
 

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and this is where I have a HUGE problem with that unbelievable statement "IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE"

I have always hated that statement, and this is one reason why. The government is about to throw a bunch of people in jail for basically no reason.
What pisses me off more than anything with that statement is that it does NOT work both ways.

If I have a 13 round post-ban mag in NY and don't know any better, I go to jail.

If some cop arrests me for an AR that turns out to actually be compliant and legal, I'd be lucky to get a "sorry." If it DID work both ways then he would be reprimanded and be forced to pay all fees that I had to incur.
 
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