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Discussion Starter #1
I got their attention. And that of others there for different reasons, some of who later came to me to volunteer

So............... Whats next you ask????

Matt Paul Senior Forester DEC has asked for us to submit a plan for the clean up of the area. That we will.
I am going to send the info I have to Ted and Joe for review and with your input here also. We can put together a game plan they can't say no to.

Anyone who wishes to volunteer their time for this. Please contact me here or at [email protected] ... Please put "Neversink volunteer" in the subjest line please.
 

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I don't even know where that is but thanks for taking the time and initiative to keep the place open for all to use.
 

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A couple of suggestions I have.
First make sure your plan of cleaning up goes into effect after they pass the new regulations that does not include closing down the shooting area.

Ideas for the actual proposal are:
Give number of volunteers willing to help do the initial clean up.
Tell the DEC they can even come talk to the group that is cleaning up to talk about keeping the area clean and what not.
Propose putting up a sign about cleaning up if one is not there already.
try to find vounteers to go there weekly to keep things clean.
Maybe put trash cans there so people can throw stuff out easily, but then someone needs to go there to empty it.

I would have a solid plan to clean up the area but really focus on how you are going to keep it clean long term.
 

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Trash cans are good in principle, but they are also an invitation for vandals to shoot them to pieces (this has happened elsewhere). If people pick trash up enough to put it into a trash can, they can bring it back out with them. I think a sign at the entrance to the old gravel pit, clearly stating all rules for shooting on state land would be a good thing to put up. If the sign could be made as unattractive to reckless shooters as possible, that would be good. Maybe one of those bulletin boards that's sometimes found at trail heads.

Replacing the shot up stop sign on the locked gate with something that might be less likely to attract shots from reckless people, maybe reflective paint or tape on the gate, might be good.

Pipewrench, do you know which DEC email address we should send comments to in support of reopening the area?
 

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I got their attention. And that of others there for different reasons, some of who later came to me to volunteer

So............... Whats next you ask????

Matt Paul Senior Forester DEC has asked for us to submit a plan for the clean up of the area. That we will.
I am going to send the info I have to Ted and Joe for review and with your input here also. We can put together a game plan they can't say no to.

Anyone who wishes to volunteer their time for this. Please contact me here or at [email protected] ... Please put "Neversink volunteer" in the subjest line please.
I'm sorry i was unable to attend, but am more than willing to volunteer some time (limited as it may be) to helping in the cleanup and maintenance of this location.

If garbage pails were placed, I would be happy to collect the bags of such every other week and take them to the landfill. I typically go anyway with my trash loaded on my 5x8 trailer. Also i have a rubbermade heavy duty pail that i would be able to give to this cause.

As far as cleanup, I am only free every other weekend. My next free weekend is the weekend of the 23rd, and i'm sure i could spare a few hours friday night or saturday afternoon to aid in cleanup.

I feel as though the only efficient way to accomplish a cleanup of this area is with some type of heavy equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok... The plan is in the works and I will post it ASAP. The trash cans and signs will be a part of the plan. I hope this can be pushed statewide as to help keep other ranges open too.
USMC Vet here is what I said...
Good evening.
My name is Thomas Downey, resident of the Town of Thompson.
I am the Northeast National Regional Director for the Ted Nugent United Sportsmen of America and a member of the NRA.
I am here tonite to discuss with you the future of, and ask you to not close the range area at the Neversink River Unique Area. But to allow TNUSA to conduct a clean up of the area and to set up a quad yearly clean up of the site. This plan has been approved by Mr Nugent himself and I have been honored with the task of presenting it to you.
I have already begun recruiting volunteers to begin the clean up. We would only need basic tools to do this such as a couple rakes and shovels and maybe a wheelbarrow. I am already looking into barrels to be used as recepticles for the trash. There was one there for many years that recently was the victim of inconsiderate shooters who used it as a target. I know it is not a normal policy of the DEC to supply groups in clean ups but in this case we are not asking for much, and it would in the end, save the DEC money. We will rake up the shells and brass, pile up the plastic and metal and if the DEC will allow us to we will set up controlled burn barrels to dispose of the wood and cardboard. If not we will pile it up for DPW pick up which would be prearranged. I do know of a few local scrap metal guys who would be happy to haul away the metal.
One thing we would need is access to the area with a pickup as to carry the bigger items out to a pick up point.
I have spoken with Buffalo resident Senior Investigator for the NYS Police. and NRA BOD member Joseph DeBergalis in detail regarding this issue and informed me that this is not an isolated issue but a problem that has plagued these public ranges statewide. He has set up clean up crews at those sites as well.
Will this stop the inconsiderate garbage dumping slobs? I would have to say NO. But I would hope that by our people at TNUSA taking the lead in cleaning the mess. That those who have dumped in the past may think twice before repeating thier disrespectful act.
 
This range remaining open is very important to this community which is mostly rural. Families have used this area for many years to teach thier children marksmenship and basic firearm safety. We at TNUSA are major advocates in the proper training of our youth.
If closed it would take away the only public target area around.
I understand the issue of the garbage is only one concern but if we work together, I know we can come up with a solution to the others as well
The details of this endeavor still need some work but we are heading in the right direction.
Please take the time to consider this option. Because it really is the right thing to do.
 

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While I applaud your efforts, and want to see this area opened up again as much as anybody, I have to admit that I'm not sure if Ted Nugent's name is good to involve in this issue. He's not exactly the most widely liked guy in the country right now, and it could come across as a guy from far away getting involved in what is really a local issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
While I applaud your efforts, and want to see this area opened up again as much as anybody, I have to admit that I'm not sure if Ted Nugent's name is good to involve in this issue. He's not exactly the most widely liked guy in the country right now, and it could come across as a guy from far away getting involved in what is really a local issue.
Actually Ted is exactly who we need backing the clean up. The back bone of this would be the involvement of the NRA (Ted is on the BOD along with my good friend Joe DeBergalis) who I am going to ask to work on the proposal with me. Ted is very infuential in getting the word out and the members from NY are hammering the legislature and DEC in support of the clean up of not only this, but ALL the state land ranges. Yes we are involved in Neversink. But my NRA contacts are involved in all the rest.
Trust me. We are heading in the right direction.
 

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While I applaud your efforts, and want to see this area opened up again as much as anybody, I have to admit that I'm not sure if Ted Nugent's name is good to involve in this issue. He's not exactly the most widely liked guy in the country right now, and it could come across as a guy from far away getting involved in what is really a local issue.
I don't know enough about Nugent to comment on his reputation, but I'd like to reply to your thought that this "is really a local issue." I think it is more than a local issue. It is a statewide issue, because the problem at Neversink exists everywhere throughout the state, certainly in every region, probably in almost every one of our 62 counties, and I know first-hand that it exists at multiple locations in some counties. It is also an issue in other states and on federal land. Even states that have publicly funded, professionally designed public shooting ranges have similar problems because they can't supervise the places full-time. The issue is what to do about the effects of irresponsible shooters on the overall reputation of the shooting sports community. It has been a problem certainly throughout my lifetime, and will never end unless the shooting sports community tackles the matter in its own best interest. Cleanup and maintenance of existing shooting areas like the Cold Spring Rd gravel pit in Neversink is one kind of approach to the issue. Some states outlaw practice shooting on public land, because they provide public shooting ranges. Some states provide public access to privately owned ranges, by giving public fund grants to the private clubs to pay for them to open to the public certain hours every week. (VT and MA, for example.) These are some of the ideas that have been used in other places, to varying degrees of success, depending on how one defines success.

In any case, it is a chronic problem and persistent issue nationwide. In NY it is an especially difficult issue because DEC has no official policy or initiative in place on what to do about the trashed shooting areas on state land. Without that, shooters are subject to seeing places "shut down" like Neversink on the whim of a few people who complain about something the DEC has ignored throughout the life of the agency. I think we need a statewide policy on the matter, enforced/pursued in every DEC Unit Management Plan. It will take decades to get it rolling smoothly and thoroughly, but guys like Pipewrench are at least making some progress to get the ball rolling. Doing it locally is a big step toward doing it large-scale. Local precedents matter.

-Evan
 

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Evan, I understand that messy shooting spots are issues in many areas around the state and around the country. It's actually an issue that I've brought up in this forum and others. My concern is the perception of the situation by people who don't like it and want it shut down. While I've got nothing personal against Nugent, he has been in the news fairly recently for some incendiary comments that led to a personal meeting with the Secret Service. I'm probably being overly concerned about public perception because I know that in my area it might be seen as similar to an endorsement by the devil himself at this time. As I said before, I completely support Pipewrench's efforts. I think it's great that he go the ball rolling on the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Evan, you hit the nail on the head. The whole idea here is "Activism" we the people need to stand and not only be heard but to step up to the plate and DO.... The reason we brought Ted Nugent USA into this is not only because I am a longtime member, ( 10 yrs this past february) but because I believe in what the organization stands for. Pure and simple activism. Those who follow the status quo will allow the ranges to die and not make a single bit of effort to stop it. WE WON'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN. Some ask why I have brought Ted into this? Because he is the single most proactive sportsman inthe entire USA. He will stand up and say without hesitation, We need to stop the wrong doings. To Ted it matters not if he lives in the state or has been to the range. What matters is that letting this happen will only bring on a chain of events in which we will eventually see all the public land shooting areas closed. This Ted stands firm on.

So.... Without going into this further. Lets do what is right and starting with Neversink, get the ranges cleaned up so they don't fall victim to the filthy slobs who have no souls.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/neversinkamendment.pdf
I found this link, would be interested in helping clean up at some point. fridays or mondays.
I have some barrels for scrap or trash to leave up there
Shoot-Pollute Projects (SPP) | Sylvabiota - Loving Forest Life
these people don't sound sympathetic to the range being used again
Hey DG... Thanks for the links.. I just left the treehuggers a nice note on thier anti everything site....
Your barrels are welcome!!! Are they plastic or steel? Plastic is prefered for the reason of them rotting away. But we will take what we can get. If you want to come help on a weekday thats fine. I will hook you up with a second person as to keep it safe while in there.
We will begin the clean up after approval of the DEC on our proposal.
 
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