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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It is election season and that means campaign volunteers and canvassers. Since my wife is a teacher and a registered Democrat, there is no shortage of campaigns stopping by. Next to Christmas, this is my favorite time of the year.

Never miss an opportunity to reach, teach and inspire in a civil debate. I always like to get their views on local issues, e.g. Hydrofracking, Property Taxes, Mandate Relief, etc., but I always use this as the 2nd to last question, "How does the candidate stand on 2nd Amendment issues?" "Will he/she introduce or support any legislation that will further prohibit our 2nd Amendment rights?"

(All puns intentional)
Arm yourself with facts, don't go off half cocked, and educate them on the terms they use.
These came up today:

Gabby Giffords and Aurora, CO
Mass shootings suck. We all agree on that. No gun legislation will stop them.

6000 rounds of ammo purchased.
People buy like that because they are smart shoppers, and they are not insane, they buy in bulk to save money.

Assault Weapons aren't necessary
What is an "assault weapon"?
That's an assault rifle. To own one you need a special license, pay a tax, etc. We can own a semi-automatic rifle that looks like an AK-47, but an assault rifle needs to have a selective switch that includes "full auto". Assault weapon is a made up term to scare people.

People shouldn't be able to carry guns wherever they want.
We can't. I can't carry a firearm into a church, school, polling place or Post Office. (or a bar I think).

Why would someone carry a gun into a supermarket. That would scare me.
I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. The only time anyone would see it is if my family or myself was threatened. And people do get threatened at supermarkets.

We need federal legislation because people buy guns in the south and sell them in NY for more money.
(Didn't think of this at the moment, but a good analogy) You mean like drug laws? Are we making our own in NY or is that smuggled in too?

NY has the 4th toughest gun control in the US via the Brady Foundation, yet we had 834 homicides by firearms in 2010 which ranked us 3rd. California had 1800+, and they are one of the top 5 also via Brady.
Criminals are going to commit criminal acts. They don't care if their 30 round magazine is a pre ban or post ban. If a criminal wants something, he is going to get it. He brought up Calderone in passing, asking for tougher US gun laws to stop violence in Mexico. This is where you can explode their minds....

Mexico has tough gun laws. Mexico has 1 gun store, and it's state run, and it's in Mexico City. Mexico had 3 times as many homicides by firearms as we do in the USA.

They get their guns from the United States.
Some. (I didn't even get into Fast and Furious) Most are from their southern border in Guatemala, and from other Latin American countries.

Microstamping will work
That is defeated with:
A replacement
A File
Nail Polish
A plastic bag

Imagine being falsely accused of a crime because a criminal collected spent brass at the range and spread it around the crime scene. Microstamping is about ending sales if you can't end possession.

Should have discussed COBIS and the fact that we had that, and it solved 2 crimes in NY. (right?)

At this point, we started to discuss education, and the unnecessary need for the Federal or State government to be involved in it.

I always like to end these state contests with "Does your candidate receive contributions from downstate Democrat organizations?

He was a nice guy, and actually wanted to discuss it more as "liberal" talking to a "2nd Amendment guy". Truth is, I'll never see him again.....

But the moral of my longest post ever on any forum, educate yourself to educate others. Educate them that the buzzwords and tactics are either wrong or a lie. Do it diplomatically, and have them leave your porch with more questions than they arrived with.

If you have something to add, post it!
 

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^
Well thought out posting. Sorry to hear that your wife is a Dem; you can work on that, doesn't take that long. I converted mine in about two years. I have noticed with many types of people that no matter what facts or stats that you have, they will always come up with reasons why you are wrong in your thinking. I have a friend here at work who is 100% against gun ownership. If you need a rifle or shotgun for hunting, only a single fired gun is needed. No personal protection guns would be needed if all firearms were made unlawful. Makes no difference to what arguments are given, he plants his feet and sticks to his guns.

One last thing, the COBIS law cost NY's almost 15 million dollars and solved no crime cases. Good ridence!
 

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You forgot the easy way to defeat microstamping. A revolver.
 

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Well thought out posting. Sorry to hear that your wife is a Dem; you can work on that, doesn't take that long. I converted mine in about two years. I have noticed with many types of people that no matter what facts or stats that you have, they will always come up with reasons why you are wrong in your thinking. I have a friend here at work who is 100% against gun ownership. If you need a rifle or shotgun for hunting, only a single fired gun is needed. No personal protection guns would be needed if all firearms were made unlawful. Makes no difference to what arguments are given, he plants his feet and sticks to his guns.

One last thing, the COBIS law cost NY's almost 15 million dollars and solved no crime cases. Good ridence!
I really do like that train of though though. Image how much tax money we could save on firefighters if we made arson illegal.
 

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@goperfect, she doesn't vote Dem anymore. Too much time listening to me. Now to get her to a range...
Good for you, nice to know we can turn our spouses around. They usually try to alter us. Just be care full what you wish for, I can't get my wife off the range now. Used to be a guy thing, now it's more a family thing!
 

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"I have a friend here at work who is 100% against gun ownership. If you need a rifle or shotgun for hunting, only a single fired gun is needed. No personal protection guns would be needed if all firearms were made unlawful".

You just can't ague with that kind of idiotic mindset, but you can remind him that if all cars were made illegal and removed fromthe road, it would cut down on pedestrian deaths. I have an acquaintance who is of a religious bent, who at one time mentioned the beating of swords into plowshares line to me and I told him that those who beat their swords into plowshares will till their fields under the protection (or the boots) of those who don't.

I heard an interview with "Boston" Bratton, the former Chief of NYPD under Guiliani, now LAPD Chief. I can only remember bits of it, but the part that made me sit up was "You are not going to illiminate guns. Period. That is totally impossible" or words to that effect. He went on to say that what has to be changed is the behavior of those who would use them for illegal purposes. what struck me is that everything he said is totally true, and so out of the NYC mindset. The interview was on John Gambling, WOR 710am and I'm guessing that he has no plans to return as NYPD Chief. certainly not under Bloomberg or any of the crop lining up to succeed him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@WarrrenDee
"I have a friend here at work who is 100% against gun ownership. If you need a rifle or shotgun for hunting, only a single fired gun is needed. No personal protection guns would be needed if all firearms were made unlawful".
that's like telling Kruschev in 1955, "I know we both have nukes, and we think they are wrong. We are going to ban and dissemble ours, and we know you'll do the same"
 

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the left...needs to get more educated about guns. Most gun-crimes use handguns and NOT rifles/shotguns. The VAST majority of legal gun-owners never use their guns in a crime. More crimes are committed using knives than rifle/shotguns. These are things the left needs to learn.

the right...needs to learn more about guns used in crimes in urban areas. 85% of guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state. This means that NYC's gun-laws are working....and need to be replicated & mimicked in other areas.

we all clearly have a lot to learn.
 

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Should have discussed COBIS and the fact that we had that, and it solved 2 crimes in NY. (right?)
I may be wrong on this, but I believe that it's only come up with two matches, and both of those matches have been incorrect, resulting in wasted police time and money chasing down someone who was innocent.
 

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Courier wrote
"the right...needs to learn more about guns used in crimes in urban areas. 85% of guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state. This means that NYC's gun-laws are working....and need to be replicated & mimicked in other areas".

God forbid, although that's what Coumo wants to do....Replicate NYC laws and law abiding citizens will be disarmed for all intents and purposes. And they extended the permit process to long guns simply to raise money and for no other reason whatsoever. See if you still think that way after you've looked down the barrel of a gun with nothing to defend yourself but a pair of nail clippers (until those are made illegal too)
 

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Courier wrote
"the right...needs to learn more about guns used in crimes in urban areas. 85% of guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state. This means that NYC's gun-laws are working....and need to be replicated & mimicked in other areas".
Like NYC's laws that state you can't bring a firearm from out of the city into the city? That one is working?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
the right...needs to learn more about guns used in crimes in urban areas. 85% of guns used in crimes in NYC are from out-of-state. This means that NYC's gun-laws are working....and need to be replicated & mimicked in other areas.

we all clearly have a lot to learn.
A criminal brings a gun in from out of state, and uses it in a crime in NYC. That means NYC gun laws are working? I might need an explanation for that one, because the last I checked, criminals don't follow laws. It doesn't matter where they came from. NYC laws are obeyed by the lawful, criminals don't care. Where are your statistics from?
 

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A criminal brings a gun in from out of state, and uses it in a crime in NYC. That means NYC gun laws are working? I might need an explanation for that one, because the last I checked, criminals don't follow laws. It doesn't matter where they came from. NYC laws are obeyed by the lawful, criminals don't care. Where are your statistics from?
criminals are forced to get their guns from other states, and rely on gun-runners to illegally bring guns in to sell.

that means NYC's gun-laws are working.
 

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criminals are forced to get their guns from other states, and rely on gun-runners to illegally bring guns in to sell.

that means NYC's gun-laws are working.
So, by your logic because NYC is a cesspool of criminals that just can't help themselves, the rest of the nation needs to eliminate the evil temptation of freely bearing arms? Or maybe if more law abiding, freedom loving citizens in NYC were allowed to excercise their 2A rights the violent crime rates might be lower. Guess which scenerio is actually backed up the statistics.............?

Yeah, NYC is working just fine. Instead of actually fighting real crime, enemy #1 is transfat and big gulps.:mad:
 

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I may be wrong on this, but I believe that it's only come up with two matches, and both of those matches have been incorrect, resulting in wasted police time and money chasing down someone who was innocent.
Correct.

AFA NYC gun laws working and other areas should try it too: Seriously?
Sounds like one of those 'reasonable restrictions' and/or 'if it saves just one child' types don't it.

criminals are forced to get their guns from other states, and rely on gun-runners to illegally bring guns in to sell.
Because they all know how profitable it is to road trip out of state to buy guns at retail then drive back and sell them for pennies on the dollar out of the trunk of the car...
 
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