Let us debate about air guns

1604 Views 26 Replies 13 Participants Last post by StarKannon, Oct 15, 2012

PA Guns & Ammo

Discussion Starter · Oct 15, 2012

I hope this thread can stay civil and we can "debate" about it instead of arguing. I would like to talk about all types of airguns to the Airsoft plastic BB's to the metal BB's and lead pellets. Do any of you think it is a bad idea to make Airsoft guns (plastic BB guns) to be an exact replica of real firearms? My opinion is that these air guns are too realistic for anyone younger than 14. I have looked at a few at the store and even held some at gun shows and I could not believe how much they feel and look of the real thing. Me personally I think they should make Airsoft guns look more like toys than real guns for the younger age groups. I'm not saying to stop making the guns that they make now but make some that are not replicas of the real thing. If a kid was carrying one of these around the neighborhood playing with other kids, others would have a very hard time telling the difference from the real versus the toy one. I know they have the orange tip on them but kids paint them, cut them off or put electrical tape around them. I know you are not supposed but kids do these things sometimes. What do you think? Do you think the toy industry is going too far? When I grew up I had toy guns but you could tell that they were fake. With today's technology and materials, we can make an exact replica even make them out of metal just like the real guns.

So what I'm asking is do you think kids should be allowed to have replica guns to play with? We can teach them how to shoot with real guns in a safe environment with adult supervision which is fine and I'm all for that but to go running around the neighborhood with replica guns does not seem like a good idea. Discuss.....

James

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RDFABSREP

· #2 · Oct 15, 2012

I was brought up shooting air rifles from a very young age. But...I was taught to treat them like any other firearm - same respect, same rules.

Trouble with these airsoft guns is not only that they look real, but kids are just picking them up and shooting their friends with them. Makes me wonder what type of effect that'll have on them when they actually pick up a REAL firearm.

Darthgamer138

· #3 · Oct 15, 2012

I absolutely oppose any law requiring fake guns to be panted in ridiculous colors or clear.

Bloomberg has such laws. That should be reason enough to oppose such laws.

I had real looking airsoft and toy guns since I was a young teenager and here I stand.

PA Guns & Ammo

Discussion Starter · #4 · Oct 15, 2012

Darthgamer138 said:
I absolutely oppose any law requiring fake guns to be panted in ridiculous colors or clear.

Bloomberg has such laws. That should be reason enough to oppose such laws.

Who said anything about laws? Bloomberg wants to ban them, I do not.

James

Darthgamer138

· #5 · Oct 15, 2012

SRV1 said:
Who said anything about laws? Bloomberg wants to ban them, I do not.

James

Laws are typically what comes of these "Airguns look too real!" discussions. California has tried to ban them with laws, NYC has banned them.

PA Guns & Ammo

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 15, 2012

RDFABSREP said:
I was brought up shooting air rifles from a very young age. But...I was taught to treat them like any other firearm - same respect, same rules.

Trouble with these airsoft guns is not only that they look real, but kids are just picking them up and shooting their friends with them. Makes me wonder what type of effect that'll have on them when they actually pick up a REAL firearm.

I'm talking about kids playing with them like we played with our toy guns when we were kids. Their is a huge difference between learning to shoot a weapon at some type of range with adult supervision and kids playing war or cops and robbers.

James

PA Guns & Ammo

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 15, 2012

Darthgamer138 said:
Laws are typically what comes of these "Airguns look too real!" discussions. California has tried to ban them with laws, NYC has banned them.

Airguns DO look to real for kids to be playing with them. Again, I'm not talking about laws.

James

Darthgamer138

· #8 · Oct 15, 2012

SRV1 said:
I'm talking about kids playing with them like we played with our toy guns when we were kids. Their is a huge difference between learning to shoot a weapon at some type of range with adult supervision and kids playing war or cops and robbers.

James

I know. I have no problem with that, and have a problem with taking that away.

Violent video games != real life. Violet movies != real life. Toy guns != real life. If a kid is too stupid to tell the difference between real and fake they really should be locked in a padded room at the asylum.

Temporaryscars

· #9 · Oct 15, 2012

With all things, there are those who treat airguns with responsibility and those who don't, the latter of which will probably ruin things for the former.

DystruktoBoi1

· #10 · Oct 15, 2012

It's hard to say for me, I feel opposed to making the toy guns look ridiculous or making them clear because part of what makes them fun is the attention to detail, we don't buy model cars and then paint the tires bright orange so from a distance everyone knows it is fake.

On the other hand, I know of more then 1 time a store has been robbed and even a kid has been shot pointing these fake guns at the police, I'm not knocking the police here, pointing anything, even your finger at a cop while he has a bead on you is a very stupid thing to do, but can you imagine the guilt the cop has to live with? And the amount of ignorant comments and possibly even threats on his life because "He should have been trained and should have known" that this super realistic looking gun was fake?

I'm not sure how to handle it, make them stupid colors or ban them and it takes away all the fun and freedom of enjoying things like this, but as I said, they are scary-realistic looking.

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RDFABSREP

· #11 · Oct 15, 2012

SRV1 said:
I'm talking about kids playing with them like we played with our toy guns when we were kids. Their is a huge difference between learning to shoot a weapon at some type of range with adult supervision and kids playing war or cops and robbers.

James

Learn to fire an airgun at a range? I learned to shoot in my backyard.

When we played cops and robbers, the guns didn't shoot plastic BB's at our best friend. The best I had were cap guns; no projectile

demerson

· #12 · Oct 15, 2012

.... I sure would hate to be a LEO called to a scene where a child was pointing a gun at someone and trying to determine if it was in fact a threat or not - risking my own life if it were or risking some kid with a realistic toy - yes when we were younger we ran around and played like that - we knew that there were repercussions for our actions- times sadly have changed - 10,11,12 13 year olds are shooting people - so i guess a realistic toy today could cause an unsafe situation simply because of what our society has become

demerson

· #13 · Oct 15, 2012

DystruktoBoi1 said:
I'm not sure how to handle it, make them stupid colors or ban them and it takes away all the fun and freedom of enjoying things like this, but as I said, they are scary-realistic looking.

.... Make parents responsible for their children again ....

DystruktoBoi1

· #14 · Oct 15, 2012

demerson said:
.... Make parents responsible for their children again ....

That might not help, you can have a stupid or mentally unstable kid even if you are a good person,

Say your kid is prone to violence and is slightly disturbed, one day he gets mad and cops are called to a scene where he is pointing a gun at people and no one is sure if it is real or not.

If the cop shoots him the parents go to jail for murdering their son?

If the gun is real and the kid shoots the cop, the parents go to jail for murder?

I know there are alot of times where they completely disregard the parents involvement in raising their children (like how the **** did the columbine kids get boxes full of gunpowder and have a nice pipe bomb assembly line going on in their room with no intrusion?) but at the same time children are impossible to control, at one point, in each of our lives at least ONCE we endangered ourselves or someone else in a stupid way, I don't care who it is, we have all done something. To hold the parents responsible would just end up a whole bunch of decent parents behind bars because their child messed up once.

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warbrane

· #15 · Oct 15, 2012

demerson said:
.... Make parents responsible for their children again ....

If you mean arrest parents when their kid points a real looking fake pistol at a cop then I disagree. If you mean leave it up to parents to teach their children that ALL guns, even fake non lethal guns should be treated as deadly weapons and thus handled as if they were lethal weapons, I totally agree. Lets figure out how to educate parents to educate their children without causing a "guns bad, ban guns" frenzy and kids may do less stupid things. Keep in mind a messed up kid is going to do messed up things no matter what environment he grows up in so there is no avoiding that kids bad behavior, but for the rest who just weren't properly trained in firearm safety because their parents don't know the first thing about firearm safety this could be beneficial.

Darthgamer138

· #16 · Oct 15, 2012

But not all guns are deadly weapons and not all should be treated as such. Again, if you have a kid too stupid to not know the difference and to not know you should not have either pointed at a cop then they really should not be anywhere but a padded room. The "but a cop might see it and bad things can happen!" is an absolute cop out. It is what the people that are one the actual "ban real looking fake guns" tirade spew. They pay no attention to the fact that a REAL gun and some pink spray paint are 2 objects that exist. Why put the cops in THAt danger? If you are stupid enough to draw ANYTHING, from a 9mm to a banana on a cop then you should be dealt with the same way.

DystruktoBoi1

· #17 · Oct 15, 2012

Darthgamer138 said:
But not all guns are deadly weapons and not all should be treated as such. Again, if you have a kid too stupid to not know the difference and to not know you should not have either pointed at a cop then they really should not be anywhere but a padded room. The "but a cop might see it and bad things can happen!" is an absolute cop out. It is what the people that are one the actual "ban real looking fake guns" tirade spew. They pay no attention to the fact that a REAL gun and some pink spray paint are 2 objects that exist. Why put the cops in THAt danger? If you are stupid enough to draw ANYTHING, from a 9mm to a banana on a cop then you should be dealt with the same way.

I doubt you would put your children in a padded cell the minute you found out there may be something mentally wrong with them. All it takes is for the neighbor kid to give him a BB gun and him to scare the parents and have them call the cops, when the cop shows up and kills your child was it your fault for having a child that had a disability? Are you expected to have your tubes tied to make sure it doesn't happen again?

I understand what you are saying, I have seen friggin pink AR15s that I swear look so fake I'd be surprised if it even shot marshmallows let alone the high velocity 5.56 round it actually chambers, but saying "If you kid is too dumb to......etc." is a cop out in itself too, kids don't always listen and sometimes no one even knows anything is wrong with their child until they come out one day and he is drowning his little cousin without reason or cause, its disturbing but it happens, blaming the parents isn't the end all of solutions.

I'm sure you have done at least ONE thing in your life you knew you shouldn't have and that your parents would have or did forbid you from doing, if you had died anyway would it have been a case of "Well the kid was just too stupid, glad it happened, he deserved it." because now you are a perfectly functioning and concealed weapon carrying member of society.

What I'm getting at is that human nature is to do AT LEAST one or 2 stupid things, sometimes without explanation, in our lives, that shouldn't fall back onto our parents who forbid us to do those things in the first place or be treated as a "Well he was just too stupid to survive." type of situation.

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Catfish787

· #18 · Oct 15, 2012 (Edited)

I am a fairly big airsofter, although I haven't played in awhile due to college stuff.

Anyways, I do not think they should be colored pink/clear/orange ... whatever. I don't think I would have bought one if it didn't look like anything but the real gun.

Its a sport that requires you to be 18 to purchase the gun. So what am I saying? Parents.... if you are not going to supervise your children when you buy them the gun, don't buy it for them at all.

Its just like any other firearm and should be treated as such. The only difference, is that it can be used for milsim skirmishes much like paintball.

I do understand what you are talking about though.... little kids maybe getting a hold of them and using them robbing a store or whatever and maybe getting shot because they look like the real deal. Its a problem.

The fact is... most people treat their airsoft guns with respect and responsibility, as they should. Its just a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else.

The same can be said with firearms. Most gun owners treat their guns with respect, but once again there are people out their who ruin it forever one else when they do something stupid.

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Darthgamer138

· #19 · Oct 15, 2012

DystruktoBoi1 said:
I doubt you would put your children in a padded cell the minute you found out there may be something mentally wrong with them. All it takes is for the neighbor kid to give him a BB gun and him to scare the parents and have them call the cops, when the cop shows up and kills your child was it your fault for having a child that had a disability? Are you expected to have your tubes tied to make sure it doesn't happen again?

I understand what you are saying, I have seen friggin pink AR15s that I swear look so fake I'd be surprised if it even shot marshmallows let alone the high velocity 5.56 round it actually chambers, but saying "If you kid is too dumb to......etc." is a cop out in itself too, kids don't always listen and sometimes no one even knows anything is wrong with their child until they come out one day and he is drowning his little cousin without reason or cause, its disturbing but it happens, blaming the parents isn't the end all of solutions.

I'm sure you have done at least ONE thing in your life you knew you shouldn't have and that your parents would have or did forbid you from doing, if you had died anyway would it have been a case of "Well the kid was just too stupid, glad it happened, he deserved it." because now you are a perfectly functioning and concealed weapon carrying member of society.

What I'm getting at is that human nature is to do AT LEAST one or 2 stupid things, sometimes without explanation, in our lives, that shouldn't fall back onto our parents who forbid us to do those things in the first place or be treated as a "Well he was just too stupid to survive." type of situation.

Are you telling me I survived perfectly fine in a world filled with scary looking toy guns, violent video games, and violent media and did not grow up pointing guns at cops!? Are you saying the guns weren't the problem!? That is a shocker.

And herein lies the problem. The guns are not the problem. If we as humans could not tell the difference between real and fake then why are we not all jumping off skyscrapers with no fears because when we hit the ground we can hit the reset button right?

DystruktoBoi1

· #20 · Oct 15, 2012

Darthgamer138 said:
Are you telling me I survived perfectly fine in a world filled with scary looking toy guns, violent video games, and violent media and did not grow up pointing guns at cops!? Are you saying the guns weren't the problem!? That is a shocker.

And herein lies the problem. The guns are not the problem. If we as humans could not tell the difference between real and fake then why are we not all jumping off skyscrapers with no fears because when we hit the ground we can hit the reset button right?

I'm not saying we have no fears and we cannot tell the difference between right and wrong, I'm saying younger kids are impossible to watch 24/7 no matter how hard you try and it is human nature to do something, at least once in your life that you know is wrong that is also very dangerous,we have all done it.

One kid threatens another with a fake gun, cops are called, he knows he is in big trouble and he knows it is wrong yet in his under-developed mind he says to himself "Maybe if I point this at the cops they will leave me alone and I'll just get grounded by my parents!" and before he even levels the BB gun at the cop he is dead.

All I was saying was I don't agree with the "teach parents to raise their kids." deal, blaming parents EVERY time a kid ****s up is the same as blaming all of us EVERY time some ******* does dumb **** with a firearm.

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