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Never underestimate the gun world to miss the point and not think through the actual implementation of laws. Folks drooled over Heller and never saw that some of the prose supported 'assault' rifle bans and mag bans. NO, it didn't the purists said, but the lower courts ran with what it said. I expect the lower courts to find reasoning in NYSPRA for'sensitive spaces' to emasculate actual carry. Training, the media search can be worked around or tolerated. i doubt many agencies would want to troll through 1000s of posts and then decide on unknown criteria to ban someone. Unless, there was an actual rampage threat - it might be pro forma.

The location bans and how car storage plays out will kill useful carry. That is the actual real risk from current provisions for actual carry, given you get a permit. When was the last time, Clarence, personally, went to the public library, and went to the market?
 

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Agreed. I'm really surprised that it doesn't seem to be the primary focus. All of the other crap, while terrible and possibly unconstitutional, has nowhere near the profound effect this part will.
Yes -- this would totally kill concealed carry in NYS. Just about the only way you could carry would be walking down the road. If you were driving, you couldn't even pull into a gas station or parking lot -- both of which are private property -- without signage saying that firearms are allowed.

This is a de facto ban. I don't see how courts will allow it to stand.
 

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According to several cops I have spoken with it will be illegal, as of Sept. 1, to carry a handgun in Catskill State Park and Adirondack State Park. Does anyone know if this is true?
 

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According to several cops I have spoken with it will be illegal, as of Sept. 1, to carry a handgun in Catskill State Park and Adirondack State Park. Does anyone know if this is true?
Yes, I believe the law, will allow firearms only during the hunting season.
The current lawsuit is scheduled to be heard before the end of the month. This will end with an injunction as most pro gun legal experts predict. The state, will appeal it. Causing the counties to sit on removing restrictions until the court rules on what remains in the law. I expect the State will make changes with sensitive locations and training requirements.
Other liberal states are creating similar laws, it will take years for the Supreme Court to take this case.
 

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Thus, Scotus did many in NYS no favor. It is wrong and bad that some counties were discriminatory. The result was that all counties can now grant useless permits.
I agree with what you're saying here, but note that this is a long game. If forcing the state to recognize our rights causes temporary discomfort (or whatever you'd like to call it - I had to pick some word!), then I think it'll be worth it in the long run.

Honestly, it was really only a matter of time before NY tried to do this or something similar, even without being prompted by the outcome of a court case. At least this way we have advanced legal recognition of our rights.

Unfortunately, when it comes to sensitive places, I think the antis hit a home run. I suspect/fear that the only way we could fix this problem would be at the ballot box, something that we haven't had much luck with, historically.
 

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Some of us don't have a long game of 10 or so years, sigh. About the ballot box, I'm afraid a ground swell to change the governor and legislature is not in the cards. If anything a ground swell of anger over Scotus overturning Roe with Dobbs will clobber a few annoyed gun folks in NYS. I see GOP candidates supporting Dobbs and that turns off some voters that might be interested in gun rights. The Democrats want to get into your holster and the Republicans into your crotch, so to speak. Both parties have some antipathy to basic liberties - for the children! Flame me on this if you want, dear reader if your particular liberty denial isn't one for me.
 

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The NYS response to the GOA lawsuit is in: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nynd.133602/gov.uscourts.nynd.133602.19.0.pdf
  • Some techno-legal points about validity of complainant or defendant.
  • Some use of wording in Bruen majority (and the unfortunate concurring opinions) to justify the CCIA junk.
  • Justifying the 16+2 hours of training as it is less that done by the militia in colonial and post revolution time, which also including marching and order of arms etc!!!
 

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Some of us don't have a long game of 10 or so years, sigh. About the ballot box, I'm afraid a ground swell to change the governor and legislature is not in the cards. If anything a ground swell of anger over Scotus overturning Roe with Dobbs will clobber a few annoyed gun folks in NYS. I see GOP candidates supporting Dobbs and that turns off some voters that might be interested in gun rights. The Democrats want to get into your holster and the Republicans into your crotch, so to speak. Both parties have some antipathy to basic liberties - for the children! Flame me on this if you want, dear reader if your particular liberty denial isn't one for me.
I, too, am frustrated with the incredibly slow pace of progress for getting our rights recognized.

I, too, am frustrated with the futility of trying to enact change in NY through the ballot box.

I, too, am frustrated with the Republican obsession with abortion.

But I can't think of any workable solution to these problems. I think we have to celebrate our wins and continue working to fight our losses. Bruen is a major win, but it's just one battle in this centuries-long war that started before we were born and will continue long after both of us are gone.
 

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Thanks for the link, mikey! It's a well done response and probably would agreed to up to Scotus. Own, that would be the workable solution if the law was declared unconstitutional in real time by Scotus.

I lived about 50 years without carry rights as I moved around the country for work. Then laws were passed for shall issue where we lived or moved back to NYS in a decent county. I suppose I will live pretty safely in a small town for the few years, oh well.

The reply to the GOA suit strongly uses history and prose from Bruen (from the 6 justices) to support sensitive locations and opt in. That they don't see that these destroy carry or have an abstract view of the law, separate from the pragmatics of carry is for a mentalist to discern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
I agree with what you're saying here, but note that this is a long game. If forcing the state to recognize our rights causes temporary discomfort (or whatever you'd like to call it - I had to pick some word!), then I think it'll be worth it in the long run.

Honestly, it was really only a matter of time before NY tried to do this or something similar, even without being prompted by the outcome of a court case. At least this way we have advanced legal recognition of our rights.

Unfortunately, when it comes to sensitive places, I think the antis hit a home run. I suspect/fear that the only way we could fix this problem would be at the ballot box, something that we haven't had much luck with, historically.
I like where you went with the Long Game. Unfortunately, it took 115 years the 1st time. I fear it will take another 100 years. Also, there will be no overturning the sensitive areas, thats a lock. This literally is The Worst Possible Outcome. People have been throwing money at NYSRPA, just wait till they realize, they are totally "Effed". Unless you hunt or target shoot with a handgun, you might just as well sell them.
 

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I like where you went with the Long Game. Unfortunately, it took 115 years the 1st time. I fear it will take another 100 years. Also, there will be no overturning the sensitive areas, thats a lock. This literally is The Worst Possible Outcome. People have been throwing money at NYSRPA, just wait till they realize, they are totally "Effed". Unless you hunt or target shoot with a handgun, you might just as well sell them.
Why all the negative vibes man can you not wait a week for the hearing into the injunction to be heard by the court ,enough of your crying and whingeing give it a week and see what happens .
 

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I like where you went with the Long Game. Unfortunately, it took 115 years the 1st time. I fear it will take another 100 years. Also, there will be no overturning the sensitive areas, thats a lock.
Unfortunately, I agree.

Why all the negative vibes man can you not wait a week for the hearing into the injunction to be heard by the court ,enough of your crying and whingeing give it a week and see what happens .
Why all the positive vibes man can you not wait a week for the hearing into the injunction to be heard by the court, enough of your cheering and celebrating give it a week and see what happens.

That sounds stupid to you, right? Want to guess how your post sounds to me?

We're on a gun forum to share opinions relating to guns. Your Pollyanna approach is just as annoying to me as Vicarious's downbeat viewpoint is to you... but I'm not attacking you for your position. Discuss the issue, leave the ad-hom at home.
 
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Unfortunately, I agree.


Why all the positive vibes man can you not wait a week for the hearing into the injunction to be heard by the court, enough of your cheering and celebrating give it a week and see what happens.

That sounds stupid to you, right? Want to guess how your post sounds to me?

We're on a gun forum to share opinions relating to guns. Your Pollyanna approach is just as annoying to me as Vicarious's downbeat viewpoint is to you... but I'm not attacking you for your position. Discuss the issue, leave the ad-hom at home.
Have you followed any of Vicarious’s post’s since the Bruen decision ? Everything is about him having his CCW infringed upon and screw everyone else in this state once he has his CCW everything is good , truth of the matter is we’ve never in the history of this state had a ruling to come down so hard and factual against a state government but here we are just a week away from an injunction ruling ….. let’s see how it goes that’s all I’m saying .
 

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Have you followed any of Vicarious’s post’s since the Bruen decision ? Everything is about him having his CCW infringed upon and screw everyone else in this state once he has his CCW everything is good , truth of the matter is we’ve never in the history of this state had a ruling to come down so hard and factual against a state government but here we are just a week away from an injunction ruling ….. let’s see how it goes that’s all I’m saying .
It's a fact that things got significantly worse for everyone who does or wants to carry a pistol in public in NY. It's not unreasonable to be upset over that. NY's licensing system was broken, unfair, a violation of rights, yada yada yada... but it did at least allow carry in public for a significant portion of the population (most of whom did not bother). The new law eviscerated that.

Everyone is now hoping for injunctions to save the day. That's highly unlikely. For starters, an injunction is not a fix, it's a temporary band-aid. Even if they occur, they will not save the day, they will just push it down the road a bit. But, more importantly, people are hoping that overwhelmingly left-leaning judges appointed by left-leaning government officials will rule against leftist policies. That's not a great bet. It reminds me a lot of when people here on this forum said the SAFE act had no chance of passing and we were ridiculous for freaking out about it. Three days later, those people found out just how very wrong they were.

You're not the only one ticked at Vicarious' posts. I think I know why, but no one wants to hear it: because he's right. There's a lot of shitty things in this new law, but none come even close to the impact of the the opt-in paradigm. That will take decades to eliminate through the courts, and has a very good chance of never being struck down. The Bruen case advanced gun rights for the nation, but the NY response severely hobbled gun rights for the state.

What we need here is not positive vibes. Positive vibes will do nothing to help our cause. Positive vibes will only encourage others to stick their heads in the sand. Positive vibes are not productive. What we need is a healthy dose of reality. We need to be honest with ourselves about the situation we are in. Our practical gun rights in this state have been eviscerated, and even if we can fix it (questionable at best), it will be years or even decades between now and then.
 

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The Bruen case advanced gun rights for the nation, but the NY response severely hobbled gun rights for the state.
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What we need here is not positive vibes. Positive vibes will do nothing to help our cause. Positive vibes will only encourage others to stick their heads in the sand. Positive vibes are not productive. What we need is a healthy dose of reality. We need to be honest with ourselves about the situation we are in. Our practical gun rights in this state have been eviscerated, and even if we can fix it (questionable at best), it will be years or even decades between now and then.
Exactly, I agree. I've seen the NRA and other folks say that this is a great victory as other states have lifted a 'reasons' restriction. Three cheers for Maryland - bah. Also, the decision might (with the returned cases) in several years lift other restrictions, such as AWBs.

The operation was a success and the patient died. That's what happened. I wonder if the NYSPRA or NRA helpers actually thought about the counter attack?

Kind of like Pearl Harbor, Yamamoto thought it would a great success leading to a massive defeat.

It won't be undone in real time. Practical carry is not possible anymore. Hope you don't have to go to the can while driving around with your gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
Have you followed any of Vicarious’s post’s since the Bruen decision ? Everything is about him having his CCW infringed upon and screw everyone else in this state once he has his CCW everything is good , truth of the matter is we’ve never in the history of this state had a ruling to come down so hard and factual against a state government but here we are just a week away from an injunction ruling ….. let’s see how it goes that’s all I’m saying .
I'm sorry if i seem to have come off as "screw everyone else" as that is most certainly not the case, we all took this one square in the shorts. I dont make it a habit of explaining myself to random ppl, But allow me to elaborate slightly.
I've had my unrestricted permit for over 30 years, my wife for 25. My daughters, a few years each, 2 of the 4, only got them in case something happened, someone can take possession of my meager, but still not unvaluable collection. Now lets say, every 3 years we all need to take a 16 hour class, lets say it costs $100 (fat chance probably be closer to 200 or 250) a person. tune me up 400 clams, every 3 years FOR AN ENUMERATED RIGHT. Now add in my Brother, my nephew, 2 uncles a few cousins, my MOM, who at 76 is saying eff it.
Now multiply this by 3 quarters of a million NYS subjects, er, I mean "residents".



I'm not whining, "I" am outraged by this. The cost alone is INFRINGMENT. I'm pissed that we ALL got f*cked. I'm pissed you got screwed, i'm pissed I got screwed, i'm pissed NY's most law-abiding citizens as a whole got screwed.

If you're not pissed, you're not paying attention.

And just you wait till next year, when they juice this puppy with a whole new set of Liberal pipedreams! Because its coming. Thats a fact.
 
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