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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
BRENDEN Morgan, the 22 yr old who's Pre safe act ar15 that was legal in NY since 1957 was confiscated may be the best hope against the Safe act to date. I understand that if the Jury is a hung Jury, that means only 1 person on the jury needs not agree and the case will be dropped and the Safe act unenforceable? is it that easy? Or does there have to be a few of these cases in order for this to happen? Its strange how the playing field can be leveled sometimes. The Safe act is so vague and there is so much going on within the set of laws, I dont even think the people who wrote it understand it, I sure dont. But it would be nice if WE THE PEOPLE are able to squish it out ourselves. From what i understand, the town where this happened is completely anti Safe act so this seems to be a real good reason to start licking our chops.
 

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I love your optimism, but it's here to stay I'm sad too say. Maybe some adult federal judge will strike it down....probably as much chance as the Buffalo Bills ever making the playoffs....slim to nil.....
 

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Our chances would have been better if it had been legally purchased before the unsafe act, and not purchased afterwards and modified to remove the bullet button. The way I see it, there is hope, but not a lot in this particular case.
 

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No.

Just because one jury is hung that does not invalidate an entire law.

Even if they rule in his favor that still doesn't invalidate the law.

Only a court case challenging the actual law will help us...not a case that is trying someone that is being prosecuted for breaking a law.
 

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Ok I'll bite, how can they prove that he bought it after the safe act was implemented. Let's say if I broke my lower and then wanted to replace it with a new stripped lower I can't do that because I bought it post safe act?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Our chances would have been better if it had been legally purchased before the unsafe act, and not purchased afterwards and modified to remove the bullet button. The way I see it, there is hope, but not a lot in this particular case.
im sure the lawyer is going to tell the Jury the rifle hasn't changed, its the same rifle that's been legal here for 50 yrs. Cuomo comes along and says now its evil, etc etc. I think you will find allot of people on the jury that are not going to have a problem with law abiding citizens owning the same rifles that 48 other states are able to own. this silliness and foolishness must stop.
 

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From the circumstances described, I hope he fight it and doesn't plea out. Some good anti-S.A.F.E. lawyers should volunteer their time to make sure this is understood by the jurors, it is a political prosecution, persecution .
Robin
 

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Ok I'll bite, how can they prove that he bought it after the safe act was implemented. Let's say if I broke my lower and then wanted to replace it with a new stripped lower I can't do that because I bought it post safe act?
Serial numbers are traceable to 4473s and to original date of manufacture. If the date on the 4473 was after jan 15 2013, then you would be in posession of an illegal AW. There is no provision to replace a broken registered AW.
 

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From the circumstances described, I hope he fight it and doesn't plea out. Some good anti-S.A.F.E. lawyers should volunteer their time to make sure this is understood by the jurors, it is a political prosecution, persecution .
Robin
this a good thinking there Robin ! From what I'm understanding is there are two great lawyers taking on this case and the DA isn't real sure about defending the state so right now I'm a little confused ( aren't we all ) from the signals the state is now throwing out . This may not have an effect on safe but it will save his life concerning his 2 A privileges so this is good thing IMHO !
 

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Serial numbers are traceable to 4473s and to original date of manufacture. If the date on the 4473 was after jan 15 2013, then you would be in posession of an illegal AW. There is no provision to replace a broken registered AW.
And if he bought it from a private owner in 2010 ?
 

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Serial numbers are traceable to 4473s and to original date of manufacture. If the date on the 4473 was after jan 15 2013, then you would be in posession of an illegal AW. There is no provision to replace a broken registered AW.
Ok but the state shouldn't have access to federal papers. So if you buy one from a home based ffl how'd they know where you f or it from. If I bought one they'd have to find where I bought it from first and good luck with that. If the state has access to 4473s they'd already be knocking on doors asking why you didn't register your baby killing rifle
 

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And plus a stripped lower isn't assault weapon yet. Its a simply a hunk of serialized aluminum that can just be thrown at a bad guy or politician lol
 

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Ok but the state shouldn't have access to federal papers. So if you buy one from a home based ffl how'd they know where you f or it from. If I bought one they'd have to find where I bought it from first and good luck with that. If the state has access to 4473s they'd already be knocking on doors asking why you didn't register your baby killing rifle
This is a big sticking point unless the guy gave up his right to remain silent and told them where and when he purchased the rifle.

If state authorities have access to the federal 4473 forms, then why does the state of Connecticut make it's citizens fill out redundant paperwork to send to the state when they purchase a firearm?

Not that our state governments make perfect sense in most things they do, but I don't get this part.
 

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Ok but the state shouldn't have access to federal papers. So if you buy one from a home based ffl how'd they know where you f or it from. If I bought one they'd have to find where I bought it from first and good luck with that. If the state has access to 4473s they'd already be knocking on doors asking why you didn't register your baby killing rifle
What? the state just got the 170 4473s of people who bought bullet button ARs from that gun shop...

There is no database for 4473s. The way recovered firearm investigations work is they get the make and serial number of the lower, and follow the paper trail to the current owner. To look up every 4473 in the state ever is nearly impossible. Its designed to work so they can track individual guns with individual serial numbers through the various shops that sold the gun. Plus there is always the provision that if you purchased your gun sometime before jan, 15, 2013 you could have sold it to "some guy" in a private sale which used to be legal. AFAIK you did not need to keep any records of the sale or anything. But now, after SAFE, doing that is a crime. So if you sell ANY gun after 1/15/2013 you had better have a 4473 at an FFL to show for it. If you bought the gun before that date, it would be hard to determine when the date of sale actually was. If you bought the gun from a dealer after that date and sold it in a private transfer w/o going through an FFL it is a crime that is easily provable, as you did not possess the gun prior to SAFE and therefore needed to have gone through an FFL for a private resale.

I doubt the guy purchased an AR with a bullet button prior to SAFE. that doesn't make sense. These are FACTS in the case. We know he bought it from that shop and removed a bullet button, meaning more likely than not the gun was not owned by him or anyone else in 2010. I'm willing to bet that the date of the sale was sometime after january 15 of 2013. And sometime after that, he removed the bullet button.
 

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If state authorities have access to the federal 4473 forms, then why does the state of Connecticut make it's citizens fill out redundant paperwork to send to the state when they purchase a firearm?

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To make it easy. If they want to search the lineage of a rifle they would have to contact the mfg to see what distributor they sold it to. The distributor would need to release the FFL he sold it to. They could then go to the dealer and request the 4473 seeing who the end purchaser was. If you have your own internal database you can skip the first couple steps.
I believe pistols are this way in NY. A form is filled out and sent to NYSP upon the sale.
 

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This is a big sticking point unless the guy gave up his right to remain silent and told them where and when he purchased the rifle.

If state authorities have access to the federal 4473 forms, then why does the state of Connecticut make it's citizens fill out redundant paperwork to send to the state when they purchase a firearm?

Not that our state governments make perfect sense in most things they do, but I don't get this part.
The same reason the NYSP does it with pistols. If they recover a gun at a crime scene they don't have to do any actual work. They just look up the state database and see who it is registered to. If it is not registered then they have to actually do work and go through the 4473s starting with the manufacturer.
 

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Let the speculation begin. Wake me up when we have an actual safe act case.
 
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