New York Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My butt just gets so sore in NY its just tiring. First off Im sure NY has some statute that says they can ask and do anything we want to determine if an applicant is pistol permit WORTHY. Answering is always a loaded question....if I say NO will they deny me? If I say yet I feel Violated?

With my permit they asked if they could talk to employer. Which I didnt like either way but atleast my boss/freind wants his too so I know he was ok. Ive known for 20+ years so Whew on that one.....

But my wife, who is self employed, had her interview recently and she, knowing I would not be happy, just told me the interviewer asked for neighbors AND some clients to talk with. NOW I Really Really dont want my neighbors knowing my business, thats why I moved down here! and they are, well, neighbors, not freinds. On top of it her CLIENTS! REALLY!!! what business is it of theirs!! especially that she runs a daycare!!!! we keep all guns in ONE safe and all ammo in ANOTHER safe and NOTHING comes out when They are here. He have HIGH regard for safety. Plus kids are never allowed upstairs and ofcourse are toddlers and thats not an issue. BUT....REALLY!! She felt on the spot and said "well I dont know about that, this could affect my business?" she was told ok we will put your app on HOLD unitl you decide what you want to do. HOLDING HER HOSTAGE...so, she though of who would be the best and ok with it........
BUT STILL, now my clients know and think of her differently. Regardless if pro gun or not........just the words daycare and guns raises hairs. Now on client may quite cuz of it.
She felt if she didnt give it....she would be denied...... But like I said..for all you know you could still get denied if the judge dont like the idea of it. Plus she is questioned now by clients do you carry a gun, can my kids get to it...now we have to go through all the explaining....she is mostly a target person and never wishes to carry for self defense. she likes to have a tea and shoot zombie targets......
The mess we weaved. What would you guys have done? would she have had any recourse or ability to say no, how bout more references ro something???

I also ask as a freind in the same town is now retired and hes worried he will be asked for neighbors since no employer. He is not very trustworthy of one and his house is way back. you could have a feild day in there and no one would know it and now he feels he would be a target if people knew.

Oh NY, Cant you be a little less intrusive!! ( thanks for listening and your thoughts and idea on the matter)

Pondering in Ont county.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,137 Posts
Plus she is questioned now by clients do you carry a gun, can my kids get to it...now we have to go through all the explaining....she is mostly a target person and never wishes to carry for self defense. she likes to have a tea and shoot zombie targets......
Do you have a problem being honest with parents that trust you with the safety of their children?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,857 Posts
In Colonie they don't ask you to name neighbors, they just go random door knocking. At least you have the chance to point them in a certain direction. It is still absolute BS and a trampling of the 2nd A.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,137 Posts
I do agree, there is no justification for talking to neighbors. You might as well pick a random person off the street.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Do you have a problem being honest with parents that trust you with the safety of their children?
Not at all. we tell them that I carry and what she tends to do and how we keep them locked up. Its just another thing that I have to explain to clients about my personal business and would prefer to keep on the DL. It just raises the whole question and she encourages them to ask if they have questions. I myself would prefer that nobody Knew.

Some have asked how can they get one! People are (understandably) funny with their kids and just dont feel thats guns in a home are even remotely approprate when you do what shes does....so be they are all more than welcome to their opinion. We explain to them how we keep them, when they are taken out, why we have them, and are fully up front now the "cats out of the bag" Just a bag I (personally) wish never got opened but..........

ok, so sounds like this is not a totally "new" concept in NY atleast. I guess discrection in not in the objective, ( duh) NO thier job to be descretoin is not part of the job I understand..its being thorough but I stll feel violated....but its ny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,720 Posts
Stop blaming NY for the actions of an overzealous backgrounder. They are just going to work within the parameters that they know. They can only interview those you put down for references, sometimes a second layer of them, but they cannot get into a position where they would violate your privacy or safety. if you don't like what they are doing, talk to their supervisor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,029 Posts
Asking them to speak with your neighbors....probably not the best thing. Especially since many neighbors despise one another and are always looking for a reason to mess with your life in some way, shape, or form.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
Stop blaming NY for the actions of an overzealous backgrounder. They are just going to work within the parameters that they know. They can only interview those you put down for references, sometimes a second layer of them, but they cannot get into a position where they would violate your privacy or safety. if you don't like what they are doing, talk to their supervisor.
They are getting into a position where they are violating his and her privacy and maybe safety. They are just doing their job but this type of investigating could hurt their business now or in the future. If someone trust them enough to watch their children, why would you have to ask that same person if you think they are responsible enough to own a firearm? I agree...speak to a supervisor and explain this action could affect your business. Don't threaten to sue or mention it, but talk to a lawyer as well. I have one ready as I am going through the process now myself, just in case of any questions or issues like this pop up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
My wife has a NYS registered home child care, so I know how that works. She doesn't have any desire to get her permit, and we're in Yates county so we don't have your problem.

What I do know is that kids grow up, and clients move on. So future clients have no reason to know and you can have your privacy back in 5-10 years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,720 Posts
"What I do know is that kids grow up, and clients move on. So future clients have no reason to know and you can have your privacy back in 5-10 years. "

Why give up your privacy at all?

Most of us here are of the sheepdog mentality (I hope), so why act like the sheep and give up something you don't have to?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
((Quote)) First off Im sure NY has some statute that says they can ask and do anything we want to determine if an applicant is pistol permit WORTHY. Answering is always a loaded question....if I say NO will they deny me? If I say yet I feel Violated? ((Quote))

I don't think it's a NY statute or procedure--every County, and even more so , every Judge that approves permits seems to have their own "rules." What you're going through in your County absolutely sucks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
"What I do know is that kids grow up, and clients move on. So future clients have no reason to know and you can have your privacy back in 5-10 years. "

Why give up your privacy at all?

Most of us here are of the sheepdog mentality (I hope), so why act like the sheep and give up something you don't have to?
The way I read it. . . They already did. See below

now my clients know and think of her differently. Regardless if pro gun or not........just the words daycare and guns raises hairs. Now on client may quite cuz of it.

snip

Plus she is questioned now by clients do you carry a gun, can my kids get to it...now we have to go through all the explaining....

snip

The mess we weaved. What would you guys have done? would she have had any recourse or ability to say no, how bout more references ro something???
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,553 Posts
Did you try politely explaining that it is none of her clients' business and you would rather they not be brought into it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,720 Posts
Or now you should call and say that their over-intrusiveness has cost them clients?

You know, you can politely decline to answer questions.....especially if they seem unrelated or will violate your privacy. Too many people are too willing to share way too much info nowadays......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
536 Posts
Too many people are too willing to share way too much info nowadays......[/QUOTE said:
I completely agree with this. If it's going to interfer with your business, politely and respectfully decline to give them that information. It's not the law, it's your county being more invasive than other counties in NYS

In Monroe, they called my refrences, they called my wife, and that was it. They never even talked to me at all. If they had asked to speak with my employer, I'd have certainly asked for some rational for why that's relevent to the permit process.

I really feel for you guys in other counties that are put through the ringer and forced to give more information than you should for possibly even "restricted" permits. It's really not fair that the process is not consistant state wide, lets hope we see that change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Did you try politely explaining that it is none of her clients' business and you would rather they not be brought into it?

"Or now you should call and say that their over-intrusiveness has cost them clients?


You know, you can politely decline to answer questions.....especially if they seem unrelated or will violate your privacy. Too many people are too willing to share way too much info nowadays......"

Now Now Im looking to fry anyone or anything. If I didnt mention it sorry but she say that she doesnt think that would be good as its a private matter and she gave the required two references per the application request so when she said she didnt know if she should or wants to give more......HE said.....okay...I can always put your permit to the SIDE until you decide if you want to take "it" (assuming the application) further. She could always call him back afer she thinks it over / or talks to me.

I happen to know of and sorta know this investigator and its his standard line of questions. hes a nice guy and im sure he feels he is just doing his job. but he was "sorta Clear" in that if you dont provide it..your app would "go on hold". Talking to others I know they asked all of them over the years to call employers and sometimes a neighbor.

I think ONCE her process is done I may bring this up to the Sherriffs office. Again not looking to crucify the guy for being as RochPersDef says zealous or if he was told its Dept policy.....can they really do that is what Im wondering. we offered additional references and he said no, I have them. I need clients since you dont have an employer.

He talked as if a matter of fact thats all. I just dont like having to give up more that I have to...it sorta blinds sides you. I know the more responsibility you want, the more you may have to open yourself up for review. We are respectful people and of authority and mostly in our lives ( good or bad) if asked by authority figure you comply (for the most part with some smarts in there too)

I mean RochPerDef is right in that people do offer way more that necessary these days but was a little shock that when we did sorta say......Ummm wait.....we got "shut down" and the app would not go futher.

I just didnt know if others experienced being asked for information OUT of the scope of the original application. I mean if you have a blip by all means I can understand but I dont know...it just got me thinking.

If I came off as Im losing my business oh my god, I didnt mean too its just a "hassle" I didnt want...but maybe its just part of the territory is all. If someone trusts you with their kid..they should trust you with a gun...but again, we are all allowed our own opinions and options. thats what makes it america. But many are taught guns and kids dont mix and ofcourse they have questions.

PS we tool the client to show the all our safeguards and what not and after the initial shock are fine about it now that they have had some time with it. I explained to the dad as hey, this is what we do on our own time. We all have hobbies and beleives but your kids are and will always be 100% safe here. My wife has me come in the back door and go lock up my carry firearm before I go to play with the kids when I get home from work. Just a precaution thats seems to make sense to US......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Ontario county is hit or miss if they grill you with questions or not. My friends references were grilled about him to no end asking about how much he drinks, does he get angry a lot, etc... My references, if they didnt answer the phone, simply got a message stating describe my personality and temperament in two words. That's it. This was 2.5 years ago though.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top