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Hi power is a great option. I have carried it, but it doesn't carry like my glock 17 though. Mine has adjustable sights that sit high on the slide that I hate, but you probably can get them without. Also pre-ban normal capacity mags are readily available and cheap, unlike the glock. The bad part is you're going to pay 700-900 for the gun. Oh and one more thing, I haven't gotten used to carrying condition 1 even though its no different than carrying a glock with a round chambered. It just feels strange.
 

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Hi power is a great option. I have carried it, but it doesn't carry like my glock 17 though. Mine has adjustable sights that sit high on the slide that I hate, but you probably can get them without. Also pre-ban normal capacity mags are readily available and cheap, unlike the glock. The bad part is you're going to pay 700-900 for the gun. Oh and one more thing, I haven't gotten used to carrying condition 1 even though its no different than carrying a glock with a round chambered. It just feels strange.
A Glock is partially cocked. You need more energy in the striker for it to hit the primer hard enough to fire the cartridge. A 1911-style gun is 100% pre-cocked, all you need to do is release the hammer.

Both guns have several safety mechanisms that would need to be disengaged before the striker/hammer could strike the firing pin. But, if both guns have complete failure of all other safeties and the hammer/striker releases, the Glock has less overall energy striking the primer as it was not fully charged, while the 1911-style gun fires. The Glock may or may not fire, it all depends on spring weights and primer hardness.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Replies in red. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out so I returned the favor.

I share your admiration of metal-framed guns, but all of mine are polymer. They are simply lighter, usually more ergonomic, and lower maintenance. I am not trying to sell you on polymer, but make sure you at least consider it. Did you handle any polymer guns when going to stores at least?

I did and like I said earlier, I know they're excellent and reliable, but they don't appeal to me like a metal gun. However, being my first handgun, I'm starting to think that I don't need an $800-$1,000 handgun to start with. A $400 Glock is probably my best bet.

H&Ks are polymer-framed guns (at least the current production ones like the P30 you mentioned). The P30 has probably the most customizable and ergonomic grip on any gun today, but it is polymer framed.

Yup, my first post was all over the place. The P30 was the first/only poly gun I found attractive. I briefly looked into the H&K line but the prices scared me away. lol

Additionally, the Sigs you mentioned are aluminum-framed, not steel. I don't know if you meant steel when you said it, or just any kind of metal, but those Sigs are not steel-framed.

Correct, I meant metal, not necessarily steel.

All that said, I get from your post that you want an all-around gun, for range use, carry, and learning. Any time someone asks for a suggestion for a first gun, I think .22, because that is the best way to learn the basics. Many manufacturers produce .22s that are identical to centerfire pistols they produce. One example is Sig, another is the S&W M&P line. Some also sell a .22 conversion kit (again, Sig has these for some of their models).

I'm not a fan of .22 handguns, personally. I am proficient with the Beretta 92f and feel that I can start off with a 9mm instead of "learning" with a .22. I've also been shooting shotguns (trap and hunting) since I was a child so I'm not new to firearms in general, just never bought my own handgun.

If you do go with a centerfire model, I can't stress enough that it should be a 9mm. Bigger than that, and you have to deal with additional recoil, which is not productive when trying to learn the fundamentals. 9mm is also the least expensive of the common centerfire cartridges. You could do just fine only shooting 9mm for all purposes, but thats another conversation.

I do plan on going with a 9mm, but that Sig Nightmare felt perfect in my hand. However, as much as I'd like to buy one right now, a $1k 1911 probably isn't my best choice for a first handgun. I also hear they're a nuisance to take down and clean. I've taken down and cleaned the 92f and my brother's .45 XDs with ease.

Now on to the good part. For an all-metal, all around gun, I think you did well with the idea for the Sig P229. Pre-bans are available which is another bonus in New York. It may be a challenge to carry, but lots of people do. A smaller but just as nice choice would be the Sig P239. I consider that to be a good size for carry, but I think it is still big enough to shoot well. Sig has quite a few models to choose from; I'm sure one of them is the right combination for you. I would echo the advice not to start with a 1911, and I personally wouldn't want to carry a 1911 until I had shot it a LOT without any problems, but that is my opinion and I may be in the minority. I have also heard the stories from trainers that 1911s seldom make it through a course without a malfunction. One trainer I saw on YouTube said he keeps some Glock 21s on hand for students who bring 1911s and get tired of clearing the malfunctions.

Thanks, I'll look into the P239 as well. I was a bit disappointed with how big the P229 Elite I looked at was. It felt great in my hands and looked amazing, but it felt like it would be too heavy/bulky to carry.

I've not had any experience with CZs, but I see them thrown in with the likes of HK and Sig online, so they have a good reputation, and they are also metal-framed guns. Other than those, most of the primary manufacturers have gone to polymer for the reasons I listed above (and also because its cheaper to produce, but those savings are rarely passed along to us The Sig SP2022 is an example where it is passed along).

I too have seen CZ mentioned in numerous threads that I've found when doing my research. It seems that many people compare the CZ with the Sig 229 and H&K P30.

In a way, limiting it to metal makes recommending guns pretty easy, because there just aren't that many of them anymore. Normally I would advise you to further narrow the playing field by deciding on things like double stack or single stack, trigger variant (DA/SA, SAO, Striker-fired constant action, etc). But you are pretty much going to end up with a DA/SA like a Sig, CZ, or Beretta, or a 1911. You are narrowing out 85% of the market by ignoring polymer. That's fine, but just make sure you have good justification for filtering out such a large part of the market before you make your decision. I too find them to have more character and to look better, but like I said, I went with polymer guns.

That's one thing I'm not sure of. I mean, I know what SA, DA, SA/DA and DAO mean but I'm not experienced enough to actually prefer one over the other. The 1911 I held was great and the layout of the safety, hammer, trigger, etc. felt very natural. The Sig felt nice too. I just don't have enough experience to prefer one over the other.

Oh, and one more thing. If you do go with something polymer, I would give you the opposite advice regarding Heckler & Koch. I have found them to be the best choices for myself. They are expensive, but when you consider how long you will own it and how much ammo you will put through it, the cost of the gun is fairly irrelevant to the discussion. You will put many times that cost through it in ammo alone. I love my HKs and I owned a fair number of brands on my journey of buying and selling to try stuff before I finally found HK.

A friend of mine is a huge H&K fan and owns a bunch of H&K firearms. However, his father has his class III FFL so he can afford all the H&K goodies, as well as the ammo to shoot some of his full auto toys. He's got videos on YouTube firing Browning 1919's, Mac11's, etc. Lucky guy!
 

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CZ-75 - very very accurate gun... a joy to shoot and you can buy them new for around $500. It's next on my list to buy.

P-239 - I own one and it's my carry piece... very accurate gun given it's size (3.6" barrel) - having an all metal frame helps manage recoil.

I have nothing against polymer frame guns - Glocks are good shooters, reliable and have a strong following. If someone wants to sell me a G19 in good shape for cheap - I'll probably take them up on the offer. But, I prefer all metal guns, that's all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Just leaving the range. I'm ok with the cz 75 but G19 was cake. CZ 75 barely resembled any sort of grouping at 25 ft but the G19 had clear 3 shot groupings. They have a Colt Defender Lightweight but I didn't have time to test it out. Asking price on that one was $950 used. Looked great though.
 

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My Beretta 92fs Compact is very nice and accurate. I also just sold a CZ 75 compact in 40 and that was also very nice. I plan on replacing that with the newer style that has the decocker and another 9mm. CZ is the way to go for cost effective handguns that are built like a tank.
 

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Best compact single stack metal frame 9mm out there, S&W3913. 100% reliable, all metal, perfect ergonomics. The only problem is finding one since no one gets rid of these.



Other 9's to consider, S&W CS9, compact with aluminum frame. S&W 5906, full size, steel framed. Any of these are 100% reliable, good looking, and have tons of parts available. No sane person sells any of them.
 

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Best compact single stack metal frame 9mm out there, S&W3913. 100% reliable, all metal, perfect ergonomics. The only problem is finding one since no one gets rid of these.



Other 9's to consider, S&W CS9, compact with aluminum frame. S&W 5906, full size, steel framed. Any of these are 100% reliable, good looking, and have tons of parts available. No sane person sells any of them.
on the lighter side, i went looking into ladder 13's suggestion on the s&w 3913 as not familiar with that gun. so in searching threads and reading the gun gets very good grades. then here's a youtube video on takedown of the gun. always interested in takedown proceedure. well i gotta tell ya i had tears in my eyes from laughter (sad really).

Smith and Wesson 3913 Review - YouTube

listen for the part about kids in the yard. don't fall over on the re-assembly. just a few "piece of ****es" there.

some people should refrain from posting on youtube, just say'in ........
 
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