New York Firearms Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
258 Posts
I run the polymer coated Brown bear through my 7.62x39 upper. Don't know if that helps you at all. It runs just fine when the crappy magazines feed correctly. No experience with the lacquer coated derivative though.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,402 Posts
It is ok in the AK rounds. Those rounds were designed to be made of steel and also finished like that (pronounced taper design). So it has to do more with the chamber than the system itself. Average accuracy of any steel is so-so. It is not like they are totally bad rounds but they are dirty and not consistent. The goal is to make ammo that goes bang the cheapest way possible.
Nato rounds were designed to be made of brass. The AR was made to run on the 5.56 round made of brass.
ARs run with some steel? yes. Do they shoot great? no. If one is spraying targets at the range w/o worrying where they hit, then this might not matter but when you put targets far away it makes a big difference.
Some AR based platforms, special piston systems, run ok in lacquered rounds but there is a lot of sticky residue left. Even AKs shoot better with brass but the differences can be marginal as extreme accuracy is not the goal there.
Like always, you get what you pay for.

Hornady promotes something called 'steel match'. That is so funny, those two words cannot go together.
They want more margin, that is the only truth.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
5,971 Posts
There are a lot of people who will tell you the lacquer melts and builds up, what is really happening is the steel doesn't expand the way brass does so you don't get as tight of a fit in the chamber and get nasty dirty powder blow by and carbon build up. there might be a small amount of lacquer, but its mostly carbon. As Merk pointed out, its not accurate, I get about twice the group size than with good brass ammo in my guns. There is also poly coated which isn't much better and zinc coated which again, isn't much better, but it can be had cheap, and it goes bang.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok. Thank you for the info guys. A friend of mine bought 500 rounds as a gift for another friend. I just wanted to know if it was BAD to use considering its being shot out of a brand new AR that my buddy waited some time to get. Its his prize possession, so I didn't want it to get messed up.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,402 Posts
Some ARs choke with that stuff. Again it is not the AR, it is the round design itself that was never intended to be made of steel and on top lacquered.
There is a reason and history behind every round and every weapons system.
Buy hey, some people try them and like them for whatever purpose they might have in mind.
In a match AR I would not let anyone shoot that stuff. In one of the 5.56 pistons?.. maybe.
 

· Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
Average accuracy of any steel is so-so. It is not like they are totally bad rounds but they are dirty and not consistent.

ARs run with some steel? yes. Do they shoot great? no. If one is spraying targets at the range w/o worrying where they hit, then this might not matter but when you put targets far away it makes a big difference.
I would not totally agree with this. I've shot lots of steel cased Silver Bear through my Stag Model 2. Never had a malfunction, accuracy is identical to M193 brass cased ammo, and I don't find it any dirtier than the brass cased stuff. The question of "Do they shoot great?" would be answered with a yes from me with this gun and ammo combo. Perhaps Silver Bear is a different breed of steel as it isn't a lacquer coated case but it serves me very well.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,100 Posts
I would not totally agree with this. I've shot lots of steel cased Silver Bear through my Stag Model 2. Never had a malfunction, accuracy is identical to M193 brass cased ammo, and I don't find it any dirtier than the brass cased stuff. The question of "Do they shoot great?" would be answered with a yes from me with this gun and ammo combo. Perhaps Silver Bear is a different breed of steel as it isn't a lacquer coated case but it serves me very well.
silver bear runs better than brown bear but not as well as any brass

like stated above 3 posts i would not use in a 3000 ar but if i had a crappy sporter its all id use
 

· Registered
Joined
·
11,402 Posts
I would not totally agree with this. I've shot lots of steel cased Silver Bear through my Stag Model 2. Never had a malfunction, accuracy is identical to M193 brass cased ammo, and I don't find it any dirtier than the brass cased stuff. The question of "Do they shoot great?" would be answered with a yes from me with this gun and ammo combo. Perhaps Silver Bear is a different breed of steel as it isn't a lacquer coated case but it serves me very well.
They do not shoot the same and they never will. Chrono in place, 10 shot strings each I measured the spreads of many types of ammo including that one of 16", 18" and 20" barrels, several types of rifling and match barrels. NATO Lake City plant M193 and M855 are a lot more consistent as any of the steel copycats would ever be.
Aside from the rifle or carbine used and style of shooting and how objectively one can measure the differences I have to reiterate that the round was not designed originally to be made of steel independent of what weapons system one uses. This is a fact that will not change.

If one shoots long enough and can get a progressive reloader and has paper and pencil will quickly figure that steel is not cheaper nor better. Even if you do not reload you can sell 1K casings for $60 towards the next purchase.
The other day I got 4K rounds of PMC bronze a mild yet ok training round for $1190. Whenever I see US MADE LAke city ammo in 1K rounds bulk package for around or below $300 I buy 2 or 3 cases. Lacquered or not is it really cheaper to shoot russian steel puffins? do your math.

But if the steel works for some folks then go with it. This is a free country and who cares what my favorite color is anyway, right?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
Im always tempted to buy the Tula or wolf or brown bear and etc.. Steel ammo but then I start to do the math and I find its only $50 cheaper per case to buy steel over brass PMC or other if you buy from the right place.


Ive searched all over reading peoples reviews and its always the same One guy loves it, another tells his horror story.
I just stick with the brass. I may try a box of tula .223 if its ever in stock at walmart just to do it though.
 

· Banned
Joined
·
5,971 Posts
They do not shoot the same and they never will. Chrono in place, 10 shot strings each I measured the spreads of many types of ammo including that one of 16", 18" and 20" barrels, several types of rifling and match barrels. NATO Lake City plant M193 and M855 are a lot more consistent as any of the steel copycats would ever be.
Aside from the rifle or carbine used and style of shooting and how objectively one can measure the differences I have to reiterate that the round was not designed originally to be made of steel independent of what weapons system one uses. This is a fact that will not change.

If one shoots long enough and can get a progressive reloader and has paper and pencil will quickly figure that steel is not cheaper nor better. Even if you do not reload you can sell 1K casings for $60 towards the next purchase.
The other day I got 4K rounds of PMC bronze a mild yet ok training round for $1190. Whenever I see US MADE LAke city ammo in 1K rounds bulk package for around or below $300 I buy 2 or 3 cases. Lacquered or not is it really cheaper to shoot russian steel puffins? do your math.

But if the steel works for some folks then go with it. This is a free country and who cares what my favorite color is anyway, right?
Where are you getting lake city for $300/1000
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,275 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Where are you getting lake city for $300/1000
Sure can't find that deal down here. They are $400/1000 for lake city. If I saved up for a long time to by a whole bunch, its almost worth driving up there one day. Almost. Anybody know what a pallet of it costs? Has anyone ever tried to do a bulk order for the NYF community? I know we are spread out, but just curious if its actually still cost effective. I would take 10,000 between me and my friends. How many are in a palet anyway? a million rounds?!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
I've been following this thread for a while but didn't want to post on my 'Droid--knew it'd be too lengthy.

I have always been skeptical of anything but brass. How does this stuff work? Anyone tried it?
.223 Remington Brown Bear FMJ 55 Grain 500 Round Case 3050 fps Lacquer Coated Steel Cartridge Cases
I've ordered everything from old-school Tula to Wolf to Ulynovsk (sp?) to Brown bear in bulk: 250-500rds at a time. I've shot them through all three of my M4's...a Stag and two home builds. The only issue I've ever had over all those rounds was (1) dislodged primer and (1) stuck casing; both with the Uly stuff that's no longer around.

Accuracy is plenty good (no, they're probably not the best bench rounds) and they don't hurt the wallet nearly as much when you wanna go through 100rds or more in a range session. Yeah, they're dirty--let's get over it, folks; clean your weapons like you're supposed to. Overall, they're great stuff, man--order a few boxes, test them out and if your rifle likes'em, stock up on more.

Ok. Thank you for the info guys. A friend of mine bought 500 rounds as a gift for another friend. I just wanted to know if it was BAD to use considering its being shot out of a brand new AR that my buddy waited some time to get. Its his prize possession, so I didn't want it to get messed up
For your buddy, since this AR is a "prized possesion," maybe steel isn't the best for him at this point(?) Sorta like my Socom16; I know darn well I can put steel through it. But as stated above, when you drop that kind of cash on a rifle, sometimes you just want to follow the orders of the manufacturer. In my case, I only feed it brass. Maybe someday that'll change...maybe not.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top