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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
House to vote on Trayvon amendment - Washington Times

House Democrats said Tuesday they will offer an amendment to push to overturn stand-your-ground self-defense laws in states like Florida.

The amendment, which would withhold some grants from states that have such laws, will come as part of the House's debate on the Commerce Department spending bill.

"'Shoot-first' laws have already cost too many lives. In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted. Federal money shouldn't be spent supporting states with laws that endanger their own people," said Reps. Raul Grijalva of Arizona and Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the two Democrats who are offering the legislation. "This is no different than withholding transportation funds from states that don't enforce seat-belt laws."

Florida's law, which allows residents to use force in response to an attack without first having to retreat, has come under scrutiny after the nationally-polarizing death of teenager Trayvon Martin. George Zimmermann, a neighborhood watch volunteer, has been charged with murder in the case.
I don't even....
 

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The people of Florida can always tell Washington to go-pound-sand
 

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Fantastic ... A Federal law to empower the murderers, rapists, pedophiles, muggers, arsonists, etc.
 

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Lets drive the people of the U.S. a little further apart...
 

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No surprise that Grijalva is in on that.

He voted NO on two bills prohibiting product misuse lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

Supports "close the gun show loophole" legislation.
 

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I thought those laws and crap where determined by the STATE and NOT the Feds?? I mean leave Florida to their own.
 

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"In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted."

Okay.... So what about the total number of deaths? Of course self-defense shootings have gone up. That is EXACTLY what the law is supposed to do. Allow people to defend themselves with force and not be charged with a crime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
We always hear about the controversial shootings in the media, why can't we hear about the ones where the scumbags got where they deserved? These are always reserved to small blogs, forums, and email forwards... oh yeah those last 3 don't care about TV ratings -_-

I hate how no matter what the shooting is (even if it were a crack head with a gun threatening a family), the shooter (protecting themselves or others) is ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. We live in the digital age, spreading information is extremely fast and easy. No one likes to read for details these days, just the headlines. Damn the media for spreading lies for money (how much new info came out 2 months after the Traycon incident???)
 

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Well, what do you know?
Democrats withdraw Trayvon amendment - Washington Times

When a cheap whore politician proposes a law he knows has no chance of passing, he's only doing it to curry favor with that segment of the electorate that that gives him money. You know, like that deep thinker Obama raking in a cool $1 mil from Gay Pay groups within 90 minutes of his big announcement yesterday. BFD. None of us should act surprised, because there will always be spineless creeps happy to trade the God-given, natural rights of Americans for money and power.

The teeth behind a law like this is the Federal government cutting off funding to a state that decides to ignore the law and maintain its own laws as it sees fit. This is always how the Fed gets its way, and I think structural changes are needed to weaken this unconstitutional perversion and devolve power back to the states.
 

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"In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted."

Okay.... So what about the total number of deaths? Of course self-defense shootings have gone up. That is EXACTLY what the law is supposed to do. Allow people to defend themselves with force and not be charged with a crime.
He's talking about criminal deaths going up. To me that's a good thing! But not to them. They'd rather the victim be injured or killed or raped!:bang:
 

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Postmaster General
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I really don't care if self-defense killings go up 4,000%. It's a SELF DEFENSE killing. That's a GOOD KILLING.

It's like saying "The number of car dashboards being ruined by airbags going off in accidents has went up 900% since they were mandated in 19XX."
 

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No kills are 'good'.
Justifyable on the other hand is perfectly acceptable.
 

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Is it legal for one to stop following the rules and regulations of the Federal Govt because one believes in the Constitution and the Federal Govt is against my religion???? ;)
 

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Yup we the people are allowed to revolt again the gov. but don't think the will go quietly.
 

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"In Florida alone, deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted."

Okay.... So what about the total number of deaths? Of course self-defense shootings have gone up. That is EXACTLY what the law is supposed to do. Allow people to defend themselves with force and not be charged with a crime.
"...deaths due to self-defense have tripled since the law was enacted."

Wouldn't there be the same number of deaths regardless?
If there was no self-defense law, the victims would die instead of the attackers...so the number of deaths wouldn't change.
The only thing that would change is which party getting killed. And personally, I'd rather have rapists, muggers, burglars, kidappers, and arsonists account for those deaths than have their victims be the ones dying.

To talk about self-defense laws as if they increase deaths is misleading...because someone dies either way. Like I said, I'd rather have it be the attacker.
It's also misleading because the deterrence factor isn't taken into consideration. If states repealed self-defense legislation and came out and said "Attention everyone. It is now ILLEGAL for citizens to use deadly force to defend themselves in public." what do you think THAT would do to the number of deaths?
While crime will always occur and criminals will always exist, I'd like to think that self-defense laws deter SOME scumbags, and thus keep that death rate considerably lower than it would be if no such laws were on the books.
 

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There'd probably be more deaths, since the attackers would live on to attack again.

That sentence is misleading, they're saying that the deaths caused by people defending themselves has tripled, not that there's been any measurable difference in overall deaths. As we all ought to know, the murder rate in Florida has gone down.
 

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An armed person is a citizen. An unarmed person is a subject

Being defenseless is not defensive
 
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