[TINMAN]

I am looking to buy an Over/Under 20 guage. I want to shoot some trap and maybe skeet. The shotgun that I am looking at is a CZ Red Head Deluxe with 26" barrels. My concern is, will 26" barrels be ok for trap? Also I am assuming that a 20 guage is also ok for trap. Any advice on the barrel length and the choice of the shotgun would be appreciated.

 

[drsfmd]

No Turkish shotgun will hold up to the rigors of clayshooting. If you insist on an O/U get a Browning or Beretta.

26 inch barrels are too short for skeet or trap. If you simply must shoot both disciplines with one gun, get a 30 inch.

20ga will be a handicap. You won't find any serioous trapshooters using 20ga.

Not trying to be a downer... I've been doing this a long time, and everything you're talking about flies in the face of convention and competitive shootiing.

 

[12ette]

Trap is typically a 12ga game.
Barrel length is typically LONG. 30-34"
You can shoot it with a 20 gauge and you can shoot with a 26" you loose sight plane not performance from the shell.

My questions why do you want an O/U?
Why a CZ Redhead?

Now addressing Trap guns: A trap gun will typically be set up so that you "float" the bird that is to say the bird will be above the figure "8" pattern made from the mid and front bead. A hunting gun will be set up to "cover" the bird, that is typically you will cover the bird with the front bead and that is your shot. You may find this to be a handicap.

 

[drsfmd]

You can shoot it with a 20 gauge and you can shoot with a 26" you loose sight plane not performance from the shell.

You lose both. Why would someone want to give themselves a 1/4oz handicap if they don't have to?

 

[12ette]

I think you are addressing the 20ga payload, correct? While the American standard is 1 1/8oz I would bet that if patterned a 7/8oz load will do just as well, and this may be why its is the standard for all the games outside the US.

I would also say that if he new shooter misses, the number of pellets will not be the culprit, mount and thus sight picture will be.

 

[TINMAN]

I appreciate the advise and comments. No decision has been made yet. I have a friend that has a CZ for sale and was going to look at it tonight. I have looked at the Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon and it has a hefty price tag. Lovely gun though. I am just in the research stages at this point.

 

[ScotchMan]

I agree with drsfmd on the O/U comments. I would not get one of the cheaper O/Us as everything I have read is that they don't last. The Ruger Red Label may be an exception, I know the old ones were good, the jury is still out on the new ones but everything I've read has been positive. I'd like to see a long track record of 100k+ round guns before I give them my vote, though.

I disagree about 20ga being a handicap. From a purely technical standpoint, there will be less lead flying at the bird, and therefore less probability of a hit. But if you do your part, you will hit the bird regardless. In other words, if you are dead on, it will not matter whether there was 7/8oz of shot or 1 1/8oz of shot. Of course we aren't always dead on, so you have a slight edge with the 12ga, but I would not let this influence your decision at all.

I also think a 28" or better barrel is acceptable. I have shot trap with guns ranging from 18.5" to 30", and of course I prefer the 30", but did not find that anything 26" or above was a significant problem. I have a friend who shoots with the standard 26" 870, and keeps up with me (although that may be more of a comment on me than him). My Citori wears a 30" barrel and I couldn't be happier.

Might I recommend looking into a semi-auto shotgun. You can get a decent one without spending a ton of money, which can't be said about O/Us. We got my girlfriend a Weatherby 20ga (model SA-08) at the beginning of this season and it has been outstanding. I believe it was around $400. They will also have less recoil.

 

[12ette]

Silver Pigeon is a nice gun the Onyx will save a few bucks. Citoris perform well. The Red Label is a work horse, there was nothing major in the redesign so I would not let this stop me. Concerning Red Labels guys will often say they shoot loose, this is not so. What they experience or interpret is the trunion design, there is not hinge pin. I would look at SKB and Miroku also.

A good gas gun in 12 gauge will offer you great recoil reduction. Examples are Beretta 3XX series and the 400, Winchester SX2-3, The Browning (former Gold) and Maxus design (IMO about the best auto for hunting) and the long known 1100 series. I will say it again NOT the express/sportsman variant.

Now on a repeater, 26" will look closer to a 30" because now you have to factor in the length of the receiver.

 

[ken75ranger]

If you don't mind used I'd look for a Remington 3200 used. They're a great O/U shotgun you can find for a $1000 for less if you look around. Some go for quite a bit more but cheaper ones are out there. Very durable.
Longer is better for trap but for skeet I like 26-28 inch barrel. I can swing better with them. Personally I stick to 12 ga. but I see the reasons people shoot 20 ga.

 

[Darthgamer138]

No Turkish shotgun will hold up to the rigors of clayshooting. If you insist on an O/U get a Browning or Beretta.

26 inch barrels are too short for skeet or trap. If you simply must shoot both disciplines with one gun, get a 30 inch.

20ga will be a handicap. You won't find any serioous trapshooters using 20ga.

Not trying to be a downer... I've been doing this a long time, and everything you're talking about flies in the face of convention and competitive shootiing.

26" too short?

Whaa?

I shoot trap with 26. I'm no super shooter, but I certainly don't feel held back with it.

Mine's a 12Ga though, if you meant 26 was too short for 30Ga.

 

[drsfmd]

If you don't mind used I'd look for a Remington 3200 used.

Great guns BUT the newest of them are 30 years old, and there are few parts available (really only one source) so a breakage could mean long down times. It's a poor choice for a primary gun, a great choice for a backup gun.

 

[drsfmd]

26" too short?

Whaa?

I shoot trap with 26. I'm no super shooter, but I certainly don't feel held back with it.

Mine's a 12Ga though, if you meant 26 was too short for 30Ga.

I know literally hundreds of guys who shoot competitively, and who regularly run 100 straights... NONE shoot 26 inch barrels. It may not be a big deal for a casual shooter, but it's a big handicap for a serious shooter.

 

[Darthgamer138]

I know literally hundreds of guys who shoot competitively, and who regularly run 100 straights... NONE shoot 26 inch barrels. It may not be a big deal for a casual shooter, but it's a big handicap for a serious shooter.

Hmm...wonder what the actual difference is.

2", I'd wager placebo effect. it would be an interesting comparison.

 

[TINMAN]

The main reason that I am looking at a 20 ga. is that I am on Plavix for the rest of my life. A 12 ga will do some serious brusing to me and that is not good when you take a blood thinner. I am pretty sure I can get away with a 20 ga. for trap and skeet. I will probably look at a min 28" but probably a 30" from what everyone is saying. I love the Beretta. I do have a birthday coming up so maybe I can talk my wife into it. With a 20 ga. she might shoot it too.

 

[ScotchMan]

The main reason that I am looking at a 20 ga. is that I am on Plavix for the rest of my life. A 12 ga will do some serious brusing to me and that is not good when you take a blood thinner. I am pretty sure I can get away with a 20 ga. for trap and skeet. I will probably look at a min 28" but probably a 30" from what everyone is saying. I love the Beretta. I do have a birthday coming up so maybe I can talk my wife into it. With a 20 ga. she might shoot it too.

Something to consider is that the only reason 20ga is "softer" is because its loaded lighter. Nothing is stopping you from loading 12ga shells with 7/8oz of shot. That is actually my load of choice when I load my own shells, because shot is expensive, recoil is less, and the clays still break if I do my part like I said above.

Finding commercial 7/8oz loads might be challenging, but its easy to load them that way. I've heard of people who load 3/4oz loads in 12ga as well. The other bonus is that 12ga is heavier, so shooting a 20ga-type load in a 12ga gun will have even less recoil than in a 20ga.

And, again, semi-auto will absorb a lot of the recoil.

 

[drsfmd]

Hmm...wonder what the actual difference is.

2", I'd wager placebo effect. it would be an interesting comparison.

Longer sight radius. It's also not 2 inches we're talking about-- most trap shooters with a purpose built gun use at least a 32 inch barrel, with 34 inches being the most common length.

 

[TINMAN]

Something to consider is that the only reason 20ga is "softer" is because its loaded lighter. Nothing is stopping you from loading 12ga shells with 7/8oz of shot. That is actually my load of choice when I load my own shells, because shot is expensive, recoil is less, and the clays still break if I do my part like I said above.

Finding commercial 7/8oz loads might be challenging, but its easy to load them that way. I've heard of people who load 3/4oz loads in 12ga as well. The other bonus is that 12ga is heavier, so shooting a 20ga-type load in a 12ga gun will have even less recoil than in a 20ga.

And, again, semi-auto will absorb a lot of the recoil.[/QUOTE

Thanks for the advice on the shells loads. Currently I do not reload shot shells but it is something to look into.

 

[12ette]

Like above I shoot and have shot nothing but 7/8 oz for years. 100of thousands of them recoil in my gas gun is light very light. Winchester makes a "feather lite" AA in 12 that is a cream puff.

If plavix and bruising is your concern I would not get an O/U even in 20 unless it was over 7.5lbs. The Greener Rule does not apply to your situation. I again would recommend a good gas operated auto. A nice old 1100. Skeet model in 20 ga. What a nice gun.

 

[Darthgamer138]

Longer sight radius. It's also not 2 inches we're talking about-- most trap shooters with a purpose built gun use at least a 32 inch barrel, with 34 inches being the most common length.

Really? Damn...that's a long gun.

 

[12ette]

Really? Damn...that's a long gun.

While there are people shooting 34" I am not sure I would say its common.

I know a lot of guys who geek over the next best whiz-bang for trap, hoping like hell ,to pick up 1 target per shoot. Some think its barrel length, some think its trigger timing, or chokes, robostocks with more positions and contortions than you can imagine, comb raises/lowering, ribs 4" above the barrel, or load, glasses, the guy next to them sneezed, the mic didn't pick up his "call" instantly.... Then they run 95 average in local shoots. It a poor craftsman that blames the tool.

During a shoot I watched a man throw a 15-20k trap gun into the wood line because he missed a bird... I really pissed him off by laughing at him. The man was a good shot but not that good (A class).