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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Consider:
*According to CDC 25% of adults are mentally ill, and 50% will experience mental illness at some point in life. (CDC Statistics: Mental Illness in the US | World of Psychology)

*About 20% of adults were prescribed psychiatric drugs in 2010 (15% of men, 26% of women) (Psychiatric Drug Use Spreads - WSJ.com)

*Nationwide, 13.1% of children had a diagnosable mental disorder (NIMH · Statistics · Any Disorder Among Children)

*In some areas, as many as 13.9% of children had a diagnosis of ADHD alone in 2007-2008 (CDC - ADHD, Data and Statistics - NCBDDD).

*DSM-IV (the diagnostic bible for the mental health professions in the United States) lists 297 mental disorders (DSM-IV Codes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

*To give an idea of how broadly professionals use the term "mental disorder", mathematics disorder, premature ejaculation, phonologic disorder (stuttering, lisps), specific phobia (fear of spiders or fear of flying, for example), nicotine dependence, and caffeine-related disorders, are among those listed in DSM-IV. Most of these were not included in the CDC statistics.

"One study found that 3 percent of the variance in
violent behavior in the United States is
attributable to mental disorder, and other studies
have shown that people with mental illness are more
likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
Most significantly, the link of mental disorders to
violent behavior is not based on a diagnosis of
mental illness but on current psychotic symptoms
.

Research to date indicates static predictions of an
individual's danger to others are not realistic.

Recent epidemiological studies have instead sought
to identify those psychotic symptoms and related
factors that could predict the occurrence of
violent behavior. One major study has linked
symptoms of hostility and delusions, especially
when combined with substance abuse, with a high
probability of violent behavior. On the other hand,
demographic factors, such as age and gender, appear
to be more important for predicting violence among
the general population than among those with mental
disorders."
(emphasis mine, source: https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/mentilln.txt)

While this doesn't really say anything about it, the possibility that being a man (especially a young man) is more of a risk factor for violent behavior than being mentally ill is something to think about, and would be interesting to investigate. It's not hard to imagine this being the case, considering:
"In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder."
"Nearly 9 times as many men (5,037,000) as women (581,000) had ever at one time been incarcerated in a State or Federal prison at year end 2001."
(Gender and crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Now, I've heard many gun enthusiasts say we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the "mentally ill." I'm guilty of this myself. What I take away from all of the above is that we should probably start saying "the dangerously psychotic" instead of "the mentally ill" as many of us are mentally ill or will be according to mental health professionals (for better or worse, they are considered the experts).

This is particularly relevant to pistol permits in NY, considering the application currently asks a much broader question about mental illness than a Form 4473. I'm aware of one person being denied in Westchester for disclosing voluntary treatment (this is what inspired this post to begin with, he posted about it in another forum).

I find this especially troubling in light of the Heller opinion:
"The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast
doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by
felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of fire-
arms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or
laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of
arms." (http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf)

This seems like carte blanche to deny a very large percentage of Americans who are not particularly dangerous the right to own firearms. It seems like a truly spectacular thing for the anti-gun crowd to exploit. Am I wrong to think this is the case?

Does anybody here think current mental illness question on NY pistol permit applications is justifiable?

Is there really any justification for prohibiting gun ownership by "ordinary mentally ill" people with non-psychotic symptoms, or even giving them extra scrutiny?
 

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the wife has anxiety, she's a statistic, not crazy, just can't keep her in a car too long, it's sad that they can't fix her
 

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Being gay was a mental illness until recently too. Keep your guns clean? You are mentally ill you have OCD.
 

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My view on this is as follows:

All your music CDs are in alphabetical order due to your OCD = safe, and can own weapons like anyone else (same goes for other "illnesses" like "anxiety" which I think is just another way of saying you are stressed alot of the time, which are not going to cause violent outbursts or danger to other people)


Hear voices in your head that are telling you to eat your neighbors brain so that the moles under you house will stop fighting with the keebler elves and making that loud ringing you keep hearing in your ears? = probably not a good gun owner.
 

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ok im looking over my copy and I know a judge with ...how do I say this?... I do not find any reference to unnatural sexual inclinations
 

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good thing the wifes opinion doesn't count, she thinks Im nuts LOL

Im pretty sure if the State of New York wanted to, they could pass some law that says "everyone that owns a gun is Paranoid, therefore guns should be banned"

on the other hand, if I own a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i never wear my tin foil hat outside of the house. does this make me paranoid?
No, you would not be paranoid if you only wear it inside the house because tin foil hats mainly protect against the aliens that come inside through the electric sockets, so it's a reasonable precaution. Wearing it outside would be paranoid (and completely pointless) because tin foil has little to no effect on mind control beams from satellites. To protect against those you need to find a crystal that vibrates on the same plane as your mind. Obviously the crystal will absorb the beams instead of your brain.
 

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^ You put too much thought into that.
 

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Darn was hoping this was a new charity to give free guns to the mentally ill. Guess I'll just sit here in the corner drooling on myself till my next "gunfare" check comes. :)
 

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i believe anyone who is denied the right to own a firearm should be exiled in the first place

i dont believe in taking gun rights from non violent offenders or drunk drivers (if drunk drivers were to all have gun rights taken away all our military would be unarmed! )

and as far as mentaly ill goes that is too subjective to say they should or should not barred from ownership

i believe the law is anyone that VOLUNTARILY CHECKS THEMSELVES INTO MENTAL ASSYLUM IS BARRED.

that makes no sense what so ever!
if they are bright enough to check themselves in they should be allowed

its the ones who were dragged in with human skin under their nails and blodd on their clothes that should be barred my .02 cents , probably worth a penny
 

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I would even simplify all this, if one doesn't understand the huge responsibility of owning and carrying a gun then probably shouldn't have one or even allow to handle one. You will find many "sane" people that would not comply with the most basic requirements.
Very simple.
 

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Seems to me that many of the questions on the PPB-3 are designed to elicit voluntary statements that can be used to deny permits.

HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TERMINATED/ DISCHARGED FROM ANY EMPLOYMENT OR THE ARMED FORCES FOR CAUSE?

I can understand the Armed Forces part of the question (dishonorable or section 8) but "employment for cause."

Who hasn't (at some time or many times) been terminated for cause. You might not agree that your employer had cause to fire you but he certainly thought he did. So, what do you do? Answer "yes" and attach several pages of employment history? Then, does some clerk think "Irresponsible employee, unstable, no permit"?

Here's another one:

DO YOU HAVE ANY PHYSICAL CONDITION WHICH COULD INTERFERE WITH THE SAFE AND PROPER USE OF A HANDGUN?

Well, yeah, I wear strong prescription eyeglasses. According to me, it doesn't interfere with the safe and proper use of a handgun. But, if I answer "yes" does some clerk say "Poor vision, no permit"?

I really feel for you NYers having to put up with this nonsense.


 

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Consider:
*According to CDC 25% of adults are mentally ill, and 50% will experience mental illness at some point in life. (CDC Statistics: Mental Illness in the US | World of Psychology)

*About 20% of adults were prescribed psychiatric drugs in 2010 (15% of men, 26% of women) (Psychiatric Drug Use Spreads - WSJ.com)

*Nationwide, 13.1% of children had a diagnosable mental disorder (NIMH · Statistics · Any Disorder Among Children)

*In some areas, as many as 13.9% of children had a diagnosis of ADHD alone in 2007-2008 (CDC - ADHD, Data and Statistics - NCBDDD).

*DSM-IV (the diagnostic bible for the mental health professions in the United States) lists 297 mental disorders (DSM-IV Codes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

*To give an idea of how broadly professionals use the term "mental disorder", mathematics disorder, premature ejaculation, phonologic disorder (stuttering, lisps), specific phobia (fear of spiders or fear of flying, for example), nicotine dependence, and caffeine-related disorders, are among those listed in DSM-IV. Most of these were not included in the CDC statistics.

"One study found that 3 percent of the variance in
violent behavior in the United States is
attributable to mental disorder, and other studies
have shown that people with mental illness are more
likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
Most significantly, the link of mental disorders to
violent behavior is not based on a diagnosis of
mental illness but on current psychotic symptoms
.

Research to date indicates static predictions of an
individual's danger to others are not realistic.

Recent epidemiological studies have instead sought
to identify those psychotic symptoms and related
factors that could predict the occurrence of
violent behavior. One major study has linked
symptoms of hostility and delusions, especially
when combined with substance abuse, with a high
probability of violent behavior. On the other hand,
demographic factors, such as age and gender, appear
to be more important for predicting violence among
the general population than among those with mental
disorders."
(emphasis mine, source: https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/mentilln.txt)

While this doesn't really say anything about it, the possibility that being a man (especially a young man) is more of a risk factor for violent behavior than being mentally ill is something to think about, and would be interesting to investigate. It's not hard to imagine this being the case, considering:
"In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder."
"Nearly 9 times as many men (5,037,000) as women (581,000) had ever at one time been incarcerated in a State or Federal prison at year end 2001."
(Gender and crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Now, I've heard many gun enthusiasts say we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the "mentally ill." I'm guilty of this myself. What I take away from all of the above is that we should probably start saying "the dangerously psychotic" instead of "the mentally ill" as many of us are mentally ill or will be according to mental health professionals (for better or worse, they are considered the experts).

This is particularly relevant to pistol permits in NY, considering the application currently asks a much broader question about mental illness than a Form 4473. I'm aware of one person being denied in Westchester for disclosing voluntary treatment (this is what inspired this post to begin with, he posted about it in another forum).

I find this especially troubling in light of the Heller opinion:
"The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast
doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by
felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of fire-
arms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or
laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of
arms." (http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf)

This seems like carte blanche to deny a very large percentage of Americans who are not particularly dangerous the right to own firearms. It seems like a truly spectacular thing for the anti-gun crowd to exploit. Am I wrong to think this is the case?

Does anybody here think current mental illness question on NY pistol permit applications is justifiable?

Is there really any justification for prohibiting gun ownership by "ordinary mentally ill" people with non-psychotic symptoms, or even giving them extra scrutiny?
If they want to exclude felons and the mentally ill, they should exclude Violent Felons. If they want to exclude Mentally ill, it chould be "criminaly insane" That is, those that have not been convicted as violent felons for what they did, but we declared insane and instead of incarceration, they were involuntarily locked up in a Mental Hospital.

Those types of people should not be in the general population anyway...and if they are no longer a treat to socienty, they should have their civil rights restored.
 
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