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i dont necessarily agree that birdshot is not a good home defense round. Getting shot within most distances in a home with birdshot will create blund force trauma, possibly break bones, etc...


 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i dont necessarily agree that birdshot is not a good home defense round. Getting shot within most distances in a home with birdshot will create blund force trauma, possibly break bones, etc...


Yea i totally agree with you. I bought box of 100 bird #6 at gander for 28.00$ (I mean how cant you) and the old NRA instructer, veteran man there swore the same by it, basically saying the same thing..home defense and short range Bird will still do what it has to. Blah blah to the FBI 12" penetration theory, if the dudes 20 feet from me and gettin hit with bird hes dying or sever trauma which eitherway stops him from his initial intent.
 

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I wouldn't trust birdshot to stop the threat. It may leave a nasty looking wound but your not going to get enough penetration. Maybe if you shot someone in the face or 3,4 times in the body. That's not good enough for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I wouldn't trust birdshot to stop the threat. It may leave a nasty looking wound but your not going to get enough penetration. Maybe if you shot someone in the face or 3,4 times in the body. That's not good enough for me.
As Thughes says..here we go lol. But no not to bring up a debate of preferences..i do gotta say, i just been watchin those (demolition ranch)youtube clips from kouzman, they will do the job at greatly greatly slowing down or stopping a threat in close quarter HD. But yes of course 00 and slugs will surely do the real job.

ps. The demoranch guy has some damn cool vids to pass time watching
 

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It I hit ya with bird shot, it may not kill you. But I don't think you going to be in postion to say "Hey may I have another"
 

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Bird shot will kill a person. The other issue is is there enough penetration of a #9 at a somewhat moderate range to stop a meth head?
There is no need for buck shot but something like #4 coyote load will do the trick. But even a common 7.1/2
will create a shallower yet broad massive trauma.
Last year a friend of the family lost a leg due to a fall in the ice and then the shotgun fell down the rocks and eventually AD'ed of a 12 ga light #8 hunting load. The muscle and bone were gone. Irreparable damage. Imaging a load like that in the gut or face.
When we call "bird" shot we have to be specific. A geese load is a bird load, a big bird high velocity lighting bolt that is.
But even light club loads form a 12ga can be devastating.
 

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Interesting read I'm on the fence as to wether birdshot is a good HD choice but I definitely agree with their assessment that buckshot is a good choice personally I'd grab buckshot I just want to handle any threat to myself or my family decisively.
 

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The guy that was shot a few months back in the walmart parking lot, in the FACE with birdshot and still walked into walmart is the reason I would never even consider it. And while there are no absolutes, I'd be absolutely gobsmacked to see that happen with buckshot or a slug.
 

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Been enough Turkey hunters killed with Turkey loads to tell me that works. When I was young, we would occasionally shoot down small trees (5''-6') with birdshot. Took quite a few but it'll get the job done at close range.
 

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The guy that was shot a few months back in the walmart parking lot, in the FACE with birdshot and still walked into walmart is the reason I would never even consider it. And while there are no absolutes, I'd be absolutely gobsmacked to see that happen with buckshot or a slug.
What was the range?

Of course this thread will go where they all do, which is nowhere, but we can't help ourselves can we? :)

Is FBI 12" for one round? I have to wonder if 8" from multiple projectiles would be more devastating than one that goes 12".

In any case it's not like 12" equals end of bad guy and 11" means he's still raging. It's all on a sliding scale.

I have never come across a lot of examples of people shot at close range with an entire load of bird shot and still a threat. Realistically even if you're hit at close range with tiny pellets like for skeet the only way you're still a threat is if you're jacked up on tons of drugs or fighting for your life--and lucky enough not to get hit in a vulnerable area.
 

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What was the range?

Of course this thread will go where they all do, which is nowhere, but we can't help ourselves can we? :)

Is FBI 12" for one round? I have to wonder if 8" from multiple projectiles would be more devastating than one that goes 12".

In any case it's not like 12" equals end of bad guy and 11" means he's still raging. It's all on a sliding scale.

I have never come across a lot of examples of people shot at close range with an entire load of bird shot and still a threat. Realistically even if you're hit at close range with tiny pellets like for skeet the only way you're still a threat is if you're jacked up on tons of drugs or fighting for your life--and lucky enough not to get hit in a vulnerable area.
He was shot at point blank. Guy was sitting in the car, assailant came up to car window and shot victim.

Saw the aftermath first hand. Looked about ten times worse than it was... Again, the man walked into Walmart afterwards to get help....

I must agree with Darth (for once ;) ), there's no way birdshot is a threat stopper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
He was shot at point blank. Guy was sitting in the car, assailant came up to car window and shot victim.

Saw the aftermath first hand. Looked about ten times worse than it was... Again, the man walked into Walmart afterwards to get help....

I must agree with Darth (for once ;) ), there's no way birdshot is a threat stopper.
well i wouldnt say no way...as you read meketrefe buddy losing a leg and bone..and Bills choppin down trees...id say its safe to say, it will do some serious damage but of course not the same as 00 or slug..but defintly will do damamge.
 

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Yes "00" is devastating. But for all you ninja's out there, understand whatever penetrates the bad guy or the walls still has lethal force in it and you are responsible if you kill or harm a neighbor, your kids or wife in another room or house next door. The #4 bird shot or # 2 are plenty good for home defense and safer to use. Combat use buck, home defense be careful about how you view stopping a threat and what your responsibility to others is. Just my 2 cents
 

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well i wouldnt say no way...as you read meketrefe buddy losing a leg and bone..and Bills choppin down trees...id say its safe to say, it will do some serious damage but of course not the same as 00 or slug..but defintly will do damamge.
I mean, there's a statistic for deaths by falling coconuts, too. There are exceptions to everything... But when there's a better option on the store shelf for a few cents more, logic would tell me to grab it.

Yes "00" is devastating. But for all you ninja's out there, understand whatever penetrates the bad guy or the walls still has lethal force in it and you are responsible if you kill or harm a neighbor, your kids or wife in another room or house next door. The #4 bird shot or # 2 are plenty good for home defense and safer to use. Combat use buck, home defense be careful about how you view stopping a threat and what your responsibility to others is. Just my 2 cents
00 buck is as good at penetrating walls as FUAC is at being Governor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I mean, there's a statistic for deaths by falling coconuts, too. There are exceptions to everything... But when there's a better option on the store shelf for a few cents more, logic would tell me to grab it.

00 buck is as good at penetrating walls as FUAC is at being Governor.
true..but like we all know and obi points out..00 and slugs are goin through the perp through your kids room and into neighbors wall at a normalish 17ish feet or so HD shot..
 

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I think the discussion should focus around what is best in your situation and why. Loads could (and likely should) vary depending on a range of factors including type of structure, distance to next residence and likely areas of fire (fatal funnels).

It shouldn't just be a consideration of the SG Load, but also a consideration of what you might be able to do to mitigate risk around stray rounds as well as an overall defense scenario.

For example, Kwomo's HD shottie is loaded with #1 buck. Tube full with 7 rounds, chamber empty, safety on. When Kwomo isn't home, it has a cable lock running through it that ties it to the framing members so if someone breaks in when I'm not home, they might have to destroy the gun to get at it.

Additionally, my fatal funnel is my stairway. Beyond that, based on the general angle of fire, it's going into my neighbors foundation and basement if it can penetrate the cement walls. Additionally, there's a book shelf and a bench that are getting launched down the stairs to slow egress up the stairs (our escape routes, if needed are out the windows. If I have time, there's also a mattress close by that I can send down after that.

Those are just some of the tricks Kwomo will use. There is also a plan of gathering up any kids in the house and a plan to call the po-po as necessary.

As far as the "what is the bestest" discussion, I refer you to the 4:40 mark of this.

 

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true..but like we all know and obi points out..00 and slugs are goin through the perp through your kids room and into neighbors wall at a normalish 17ish feet or so HD shot..
IF (and that's a big IF) you are actually shooting in the direction of your kids rooms, then yes, you need a mitigating strategy. Mental discussions about this can't stop at, "there's kids behind that wall so I'm using bird shot."

Kwomo will hire himself out as a non-expert home defense dude. $150/hour plus travel/expenses.
 

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That entire link was stolen from boxoftruth.

Regardless, any round that will stop a threat will injure people through dry wall. Make no mistake on that. I believe birdshot is fine for an unobstructed shot at inside house distances. Any obstruction and birdshot severally loses momentum. It will still leave a nasty wound, but not stop. As nutnfancy likes to say, use what makes sense in your "system". Personally, I will stick to subsonic ammunition (Heavy for caliber handgun) for use inside my house. I don't want to touch off a 3 inch turkey load indoors. Also, keep some hearing protection near your HD gun.
 
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