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In a self defence situation (example: Road Rage-Golf Club Scenario) are there situations in which you are legally "in the clear" to draw and aim at the bad guy, but you would not be justified in shooting.

For example, in the scenario presented in the above link: An angry driver jumps out of his vehicle and starts assaulting your vehicle with a golf club. First be breaks a headlight, next dents the hood, then he breaks the windshield.

Most seem to agree that the windshield is the final straw that would neccesitate some sort of defensive maneuver.
My question is, legally as far as a NY DA would be concerned, could you draw at this point but hold off firing until the attacker makes a move to breach the cabin of your car? The idea being you want to be ready to use force if the situation escalates but still give the attacker a chance to back down. Or would drawing in this case just give some lawyer rope to hang you with and/or cause your firearms to be taken into custody because you are reckless?
 

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Do not draw your weapon unless you are ready, willing, and able to eliminate the threat. As well as live with the aftermath of your decision.


That's my opinion. The guy breaking the windshield and threatening to murder my wife and I should be enough for any jury.
 

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Driving away in a vehicle is not in option n all situations for many reasons.
 

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I would bet that your first obligation is to retreat. He is no threat to you if you are driving away.
That would be a great option if just the two of you. What happens when you are blocked in? As you can see we can what if all day long,untill it actually happens. Best not to get in the situation in the first place.
 

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You are in your car, why not drive away?
Driving away in a vehicle is not in option n all situations for many reasons.
I was addressing the specific limited scenario, as presented to us. I will be the 1st to preach that tactics applied need to be a derivative of analysis of the situation that is unfolding, in close combination with the hard (ingrained skills) and soft ("tools") assets on hand.

If any one is prepared to present a slightly or vastly different scenario involving a vehicle, I may very well suggest shooting, not shooting, driving away, finding cover, gathering loved ones/etc - but all based on what is happening, and hard skills at your (our) disposal.

LHT
 

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As discussed in the original thread about this shooting- there are very, very few circumstances in which one- even a police officer- would be justified in shooting at a moving vehicle. Most departments strictly forbid it. Why? Because if you're lucky enough to take out the driver ., what does that leave you? A 4,000+ pound vehicle moving uncontrollably. Just because the driver is disabled doesn't mean the vehicle will. God help someone who does that and the driver continues on to kill someone uninvolved.
 

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Unfortunately I don't think there is a definite answer, it all depends. I do think that drawing your weapon and using it are two different levels of response. A DA can try and charge you with whatever they like, what is important is what the jury thinks, as has been said, as well as if you can articulate why you did what you did. In the above situation, I might very well draw the weapon, as there was disparity of force, and the person had ability, opportunity, and was showing hostile intent. I wouldn't pull the trigger until death or injury was imminent.

But it all depends.
 

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NY Penal Law is very CLEAR that you have a DUTY TO RETREAT first. Drawing your weapon under any circumstances is something you do as a last resort. Once that gun is in your hands and pointed at someone - it's a very clear indicator that the use of deadly force against another person is imminent. Think long and hard about this before you decide to carry concealed.
 

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Would any of the 12 members of your jury done the same thing in your situation. That's all that matters.
I agree. However, "jury of your peers" is an interesting term. Imagine I was carrying in downtown buffalo, walking down the street. Many areas of the city are predominately black etc. I can imagine just how it would sound, "suburban white man guns down black teen in city". I am not profiling saying skin color is indicative of criminal activity, I am simply suggesting a higher population of a certain group of people would mean your perpetrator could be from that demographic.
 

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Here's a very similar situation. I would say this is a perfectly justifiable time to draw and fire.
 

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In this situation, he was in a 4000 pound weapon that no biker could touch when moving. He had the superior weapon. When he decided to enter a crowded urban area he was screwed. He lost the advantage and there was no way to take on all of those people with only a typical CC compliment or rounds. I hope that he tried to call the police while he was in transit. I don't know the entire story. My first choice would be to keep driving , call the police while driving, get a police cruiser out with me or at least have an easy location to get to one. After that, If I stopped and they started breaking my glass, I would have open fired. I don't see how it could go down any other way.
 

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If you pull it out, it better be because you think you or someone else is about to die or suffer grave bodily harm. In the split second it takes you to draw and raise on target, the situation could change.

I've never been in a situation like that and hope I never am. But I bet the stress takes over at some point.

Is it justified? RayKnobs summed it up... can you convince a jury? Same with all of the questions about is this SAFE-legal or is that SAFE-legal. Can you convince a jury? Not sure I'd be thinking about that in the situation you reference though...
 

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