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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,

I have 2 arrests on my record for petit larceny back from 2011 and 2012, both of these arrests were dismissed (ACD/ACOD). When I met with the investigating officer we spoke about both arrests for no more than 2-3 minutes. I showed remorse and thought the interview went really well. I guess not. Last week I received my letter of disapproval. The letter read 'the arrests displayed a lack of willingness and ability to follow the law'. While I understand the decision, I think I have changed a lot as a person and want to try and meet face to face with the Commanding officer to further discuss this issue. I will be sending in my appeal via mail this week.

In my appeals letter I am putting an emphasis on while I accept the responsibility of the decisions I have made in the past, I think 5 and 6 years is a long time and people change drastically in such time spans. I am asking to look beyond just an application and try and meet with me to get to know me.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My record is set in stone, I am not appealing my record. I am appealing the decision that I lack a willingness and ability to follow the law. I believe right now I have good moral character and demonstrate good judgement. I want the appeal unit to see that.
 

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One arrest, maybe. But two? That is going to be tough even with the ACDs. A lot may hinge on the exact circumstances of the crimes, did you meet all the stipulations of both ACDs (any restitution, etc.), and the other parts of your record (motor vehicle offenses, references, etc). Unfortunately, overall, your chances are pretty low. State law gives issuing authorities broad discretion on determining suitability. Five years, while a long time to you, may be too soon to the NYPD and a judge if you decide to sue.

If you are still denied after appeal, and you still want a firearm, you might have better luck getting a rifle/shotgun permit. I believe the suitability standard may be looser. A shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon if that's what you're going for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I own a rifle in Nassau County. All stipulations have been met in both arrests. Other than these 2 arrests, my record is clean. I am thinking to possibly contact a lawyer as well.
 

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All,

I have 2 arrests on my record for petit larceny back from 2011 and 2012, both of these arrests were dismissed (ACD/ACOD). When I met with the investigating officer we spoke about both arrests for no more than 2-3 minutes. I showed remorse and thought the interview went really well. I guess not. Last week I received my letter of disapproval. The letter read 'the arrests displayed a lack of willingness and ability to follow the law'. While I understand the decision, I think I have changed a lot as a person and want to try and meet face to face with the Commanding officer to further discuss this issue. I will be sending in my appeal via mail this week.

In my appeals letter I am putting an emphasis on while I accept the responsibility of the decisions I have made in the past, I think 5 and 6 years is a long time and people change drastically in such time spans. I am asking to look beyond just an application and try and meet with me to get to know me.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!

Contact this attorney; she might be able to help you with NYPD pistol license unit.

Second Amendment Lawyer | Scarsdale Attorney
 

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One arrest, maybe. But two? That is going to be tough even with the ACDs. A lot may hinge on the exact circumstances of the crimes, did you meet all the stipulations of both ACDs (any restitution, etc.), and the other parts of your record (motor vehicle offenses, references, etc). Unfortunately, overall, your chances are pretty low. State law gives issuing authorities broad discretion on determining suitability. Five years, while a long time to you, may be too soon to the NYPD and a judge if you decide to sue.

If you are still denied after appeal, and you still want a firearm, you might have better luck getting a rifle/shotgun permit. I believe the suitability standard may be looser. A shotgun is a pretty good home defense weapon if that's what you're going for.

As you are aware, NYC_SW; about the only type of pistol license the OP would ever get from NYPD is a premises license. The NYSP recently changed their PBB-3 form "application for pistol license" last month that does NOT ask "if you have ever been arrested?" but rather "have you been convicted of a felony or serious offense?" However; this won't help the OP with NYPD.

NYPD does provide a mechanism for a "due process" in-house appeal hearing but the OP will have a tough time in overturning the denial determination--particularity if he did, in fact, steal property whether or not a criminal conviction resulted from the act. That being said; I recommended a Westchester County second amendment attorney to him; she is quite reasonable in her legal fees.

If all else fails; the OP can move to a "free" state if legal ownership of a handgun is a priority to him- PA,VT, NH and the Southern states come into mind.
 

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Those 3 charges are BS in my opinion to dismiss your pistol permit application. Ask them how many cops have those and they are still cops. Not right. Appeal and good luck. Also if there was a way you could do some background checks on cops in NYC and prove that they let cops be cops with larceny charges that would help or at least shock the hell out of them. A lawyer would have fun with that.
 

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Those 3 charges are BS in my opinion to dismiss your pistol permit application. Ask them how many cops have those and they are still cops. Not right. Appeal and good luck. Also if there was a way you could do some background checks on cops in NYC and prove that they let cops be cops with larceny charges that would help or at least shock the hell out of them. A lawyer would have fun with that.
NYPD hiring and retention guidelines prohibit those applicants caught stealing property from getting on or current officers from remaining on the force--whether they were criminally charged or not. Contrary to what the general public might believe about NYPD--hiring standards are rather stringent with only one candidate out of 12 who passes the written civil service exam actually making it into the academy. Criminal history, any psychological impairment and previous employment background are carefully scrutinized.

Upstate NY is a different story; however. You might know a few officers working for Buffalo PD with criminal records.
 

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Living outside of the city I've never looked at getting a premise permit, so forgive me, but didn't Heller say possessing a handgun in the home was a right? I thought if you could pass a background check they had to give that to you, it's only the cc permit they can deny.
 
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Living outside of the city I've never looked at getting a premise permit, so forgive me, but didn't Heller say possessing a handgun in the home was a right? I thought if you could pass a background check they had to give that to you, it's only the cc permit they can deny.
NYC isn't part of the US. They have formed their own communist republic and do as they please. This is the place that will basically arrest everyone that carries a knife down there. Only a Swiss Army knife is safe there everything else they will arrest you for. If it locks open you're in danger of an arrest. No matter how hard or how many times they have to flick the knife if they can open it with one hand it's considered a gravity knife and they arrest you. Meanwhile the laws says gravity or centrifugal force. What they are doing isn't using gravity or centrifugal force. They are flicking the knife very hard and then stopping there hand that is using inertial force to expel the blade. The law was clearly written for knives designed to be used as gravity knives. Not just a knife you can beast with brute force to get open with one hand. If you go to NYC tighten your knife up so it is so tight they will break their fingernail opening it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sounds like I have a slim chance of winning this appeal. Bummed to hear that. I will continue to push for this. I don't want to hire a lawyer but if this appeal is denied I might feel the need to
 

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Sounds like I have a slim chance of winning this appeal. Bummed to hear that. I will continue to push for this. I don't want to hire a lawyer but if this appeal is denied I might feel the need to
If it were me...I'd request an in-person meeting with the judge if at all possible. Maybe if the judge is able to talk to you face-to-face he/she might get a better sense of who you are.
 

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SCOTUS has made it clear: the Constitution gives you the right to possess a pistol in your home. Please, please, please, fight this, with a lawyer. If you do this right and the appeal is denied, you will have a really good case to make both NYS and NYC shall-issue (for premise permits, at least).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
NYPD, from my understanding does not use any courts or judges to make decisions but rather everything is decided internally. In my appeals letter I asked if I could meet the commanding officer so he can get a better sense of who I am as a person and not just a name on an application.
 

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If you can find an inexpensive lawyer it is definitely worth pursuing. You should get a consultation ASAP to see what your chances are on appeal and with a lawsuit if it comes to that. NYPD denials can be arbitrary. They have set standards, but one investigator might consider facts differently than another. For instance, my personal investigator said he does not care about speeding tickets while others weigh them more heavily. So there may be a difference in how minor larcenies are reviewed by different investigators. A judge in an Article 78 proceeding might force them to explain their reasons for denial in greater detail and/or order them to compile more evidence to support the denial. This might expose them if their reasoning is flimsy. Good luck and keep us informed, particularly if you get an opinion from a lawyer.
 

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If you can find an inexpensive lawyer it is definitely worth pursuing. You should get a consultation ASAP to see what your chances are on appeal and with a lawsuit if it comes to that. NYPD denials can be arbitrary. They have set standards, but one investigator might consider facts differently than another. For instance, my personal investigator said he does not care about speeding tickets while others weigh them more heavily. So there may be a difference in how minor larcenies are reviewed by different investigators. A judge in an Article 78 proceeding might force them to explain their reasons for denial in greater detail and/or order them to compile more evidence to support the denial. This might expose them if their reasoning is flimsy. Good luck and keep us informed, particularly if you get an opinion from a lawyer.
NYC_SW; the NYPD pistol license bureau goes by a set of guidelines as to whom gets denied. It really does not vary from officer-to-officer. Furthermore, PL application get reviewed "up the line" to ensure consistency according to the guidelines.

Article 78 proceedings in state supreme court rarely succeed in law enforcement matters as the courts are quite reluctant to substitute their judgement for the agency's determination. He was denied on moral grounds citing two arrests for petit larceny. Apparently, NYPD believed the OP is is guilty as charged even though no criminal conviction came about. The courts will not disturb that determination.
 

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I agree, while I understand the decision made, I am applying for a residence premise permit. not any sort of carry permit. I was very surprised by the disapproval decision.

It is not matter to them that you want a residence
pistol license. In their way of thinking since you have in the past violated the law--there is no guarantee in the future that you will adhere to any restrictions placed on your pistol license.
 
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