[jmac00]

Oregon is about to pass a law (hopefully) that prohibits the publication of peoples names that are Conceal Handgun License holders.

Why is the publication of private property anyone's business in the first place?

Is this a matter of public record or public safety

Is this some lame attempt to embarrass or humiliate people that carry a firearm?

Or is this a deliberate attempt to endanger people that own firearms by making them a targets of criminals?

I guess Im just naive? I really don't understand the point of publishing a list of CHL holders

 

[Grimscale]

To achieve through embarrassment what they cannot achieve through legislation.

Only CHL holders are usually not embarrassed to be CHL holders.

 

[Guest]

The publishing of the vital information of concealed weapons permit holders is done by a biased liberal media in support of the communist revolutionary agenda; the elimination of private ownership of firearms.

This activity is conducted in accordance with communist revolutionary standard operating procedures (SOP). That SOP states that in order to take over a society the revolutionaries must seek out and destroy anything and anyone standing in their way. Their checklist goes like this:

1. Identify
2. Marginalize
3. Demonize
4. Isolate
5. Eliminate

The communists have identified private gun ownership as an obstacle to their take-over.

They then set out to marginalize gun owners so that gun owners cannot be effective in any opposition (counter revolutionary action). Publishing names and addresses of permit holders is only one part of this activity.

Simultaneously the communists demonize gun owners in the eyes of the masses so that no support will flow toward the gun owners' cause. (Characterizations of gun owners as ignorant, pot-bellied, racist, white guys are pretty typical.)

These first three steps are conducted in an effort to isolate the gun owner from the rest of the population. Once isolated from the rest of the population many gun owners will reconsider gun ownership and give up their right to bear arms and stop their support for the gun ownership cause in order to be accepted back into the society at large.

With the first four steps accomplished it is a simple step for the communists to eliminate private gun ownership entirely. Once this step has been successfully accomplished their revolution can move forward unhindered and without meaningful opposition.

 

[OwnTheRide]

OP, did you know that such a database is available to the public in NY? It lists the name and address of "every" CHL holder - though there are some notable holes in the database. It's posted on the web, though it requires some searching - look for "whospackingny". Nice little list of houses for criminals to case.

I'm a bit divided on this issue. It certainly seems rather stupid, and I have no doubt there's an anti-gun agenda associated with it. However, a transparent government is important, and the people should have the right to view government documents, even when it is seemingly not in the favor of certain groups of people.

I think a compromise might be that a database of names should be available, but the addresses should be redacted. That way, transparency is achieved but some level of privacy is maintained.

 

[GUNSICK1]

It's the classic divide and conquer technique just as kmussack state above. Buch of asshats!

 

[meketrefe]

I have to add..
all those laws about bans, dates, pin / no pin, stock types... do not need to make any sense.
Actually it is better if they do not make any sense at all since they leave the door open to arbitrary interpretation by communist loyalists.
The goal like already mentioned is to deceive and confuse the public mind to the point people just give up.
But I will not give up. In fact law suits should be brought up to those that list any personal information whether they are marketing
companies or illegally legalized public records and those who support them.
This is beyond 2nd amendment. Some radical left goons are ****ting all over the US constitution and they are trying to destroy everything
that is good about America.
Look what is happening in Europe.

 

[fp3675]

So the point of a CHL is to not allow the public to know you have a gun on you, but then they turn around and put all your info out there for the world to see. That should make it a bit nicer for the guy looking to steal some guns, that is what most of the gun laws do anyway, make it better for the criminals and harder for the rest of us. This is like saying because you buy milk your info including address should be available for everyone to see.

 

[arizonajack]

Oregon is about to pass a law (hopefully) that prohibits the publication of peoples names that are Conceal Handgun License holders.

Where did you get that from?

According to the Oregon legislature, House Bill 2787 was passed by the House in March 2011 and then went to the Oregon Senate where a few hearings were held and then it went to committee which means it probaby died there.

http://gov.oregonlive.com/bill/2011/HB2787/

Unless you can cite something more current, it appears that permit record will continue to remain public record in Oregon as they always have been.

I imagine that many states see permits as public record and many don't.

Here in AZ, our permit statute ARS 13-3112 states:

"The department of public safety shall maintain a computerized permit record system that is accessible to criminal justice agencies for the purpose of confirming the permit status of any person who is contacted by a law enforcement officer and who claims to hold a valid permit issued by this state. This information and any other records that are maintained regarding applicants, permit holders or instructors shall not be available to any other person or entity except on an order from a state or federal court. A criminal justice agency or other entity shall not use the computerized permit record system to conduct inquiries on whether a person is a concealed weapons permit holder unless the criminal justice agency or other entity has reasonable suspicion to believe the person is carrying a concealed weapon and the person is subject to a lawful criminal investigation, arrest, detention or an investigatory stop."

Which is exactly how it should be.

 

[jmac00]

Where did you get that from?

According to the Oregon legislature, House Bill 2787 was passed by the House in March 2011 and then went to the Oregon Senate where a few hearings were held and then it went to committee which means it probaby died there.

http://gov.oregonlive.com/bill/2011/HB2787/

Unless you can cite something more current, it appears that permit record will continue to remain public record in Oregon as they always have been.

I imagine that many states see permits as public record and many don't.

Here in AZ, our permit statute ARS 13-3112 states:

"The department of public safety shall maintain a computerized permit record system that is accessible to criminal justice agencies for the purpose of confirming the permit status of any person who is contacted by a law enforcement officer and who claims to hold a valid permit issued by this state. This information and any other records that are maintained regarding applicants, permit holders or instructors shall not be available to any other person or entity except on an order from a state or federal court. A criminal justice agency or other entity shall not use the computerized permit record system to conduct inquiries on whether a person is a concealed weapons permit holder unless the criminal justice agency or other entity has reasonable suspicion to believe the person is carrying a concealed weapon and the person is subject to a lawful criminal investigation, arrest, detention or an investigatory stop."

Which is exactly how it should be.

NRA website said the bill is sitting on the Governor's desk waiting to be signed, unless I read it wrong?

But my question still stands, YES! I know that most states do publish a list of CHL holders including NYS,

WHAT IS THE POINT OF PUBLISHING such information for the general public to see, it can't be for public safety as the government just put every CHL owner in jeopardy of robbery/burglary

 

[OwnTheRide]

WHAT IS THE POINT OF PUBLISHING such information for the general public to see

Compliance with sunshine laws and - in cases where such laws don't apply - the spirit of what brought them about.

 

[jmac00]

Compliance with sunshine laws and - in cases where such laws don't apply - the spirit of what brought them about.

ok I AM naive, WTH is a sunshine law?

 

[Tifosi]

Blow sunshine up peoples ass to make them feel better.

 

[jmac00]

Blow sunshine up peoples ass to make them feel better.

how sad is that, there is actually a name for it <sigh>

 

[OwnTheRide]

ok I AM naive, WTH is a sunshine law?

Freedom of Information-type laws, which state that a citizen has a right to know what the government is up to and, upon request, must be furnished with government documents.

Generally, people strongly support such laws until it affects them, much like the whole "WhosPackingNY.com" thing. While I'm not a fan of having my address published as a place that has handguns to steal, I'm hesitant to lash out at the legislation that allows such things to occur - as sunshine laws are often the only way we have to figure out what the government is doing. An exception here leads to an exception there which leads to neutered and ineffective laws.

In the case of NY, the requirement that the DB be available to the public is codified right into the firearms law (§400.00 subsection 5):

5. Filing of approved applications. The application for any license,
if granted, shall be filed by the licensing officer with the clerk of
the county of issuance, except that in the city of New York and, in the
counties of Nassau and Suffolk, the licensing officer shall designate
the place of filing in the appropriate division, bureau or unit of the
police department thereof, and in the county of Suffolk the county clerk
is hereby authorized to transfer all records or applications relating to
firearms to the licensing authority of that county. The name and address
of any person to whom an application for any license has been granted
shall be a public record.

 

[Tifosi]

Application for license granted, (as in 'permission to apply was approved'), not issuance or rejection of licence afterward.
Kind of like those notes you see in the paper where so~n~so's kid is off to college doesn't mean graduation is a given.

I know, tedious but certainly interpretable that way.

Having the home address listed is what agitates me the most though.
I know my address can be found if someone looks around a bit, but damn, why hand it out on a silver platter?

If we go out and leave stuff behind at home and its stolen, will the state be reimbursing us because they put out what should be secure information?
Yeah, right....More likely they'd fine you for not having a bank vault to store things in or bust you for an illegal transfer then hit the news with how your monsterous self let an arsenal of illegal guns out onto the street.


*sigh*
There, now I've gone and depressed myself again
Sorry for dragging you folks into it.

 

[OwnTheRide]

Application for license granted, (as in 'permission to apply was approved'), not issuance or rejection of licence afterward.
Kind of like those notes you see in the paper where so~n~so's kid is off to college doesn't mean graduation is a given.

I know, tedious but certainly interpretable that way.

Good eye!! I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

It is indeed the mere picking up of an application that will get your name and address included in the DB.

 

[WNYBuckhunter]

Good eye!! I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

It is indeed the mere picking up of an application that will get your name and address included in the DB.

Ill put that theory to the test right now. I know someone that applied and was denied. Ill check to see if hes in there.

**Edit** its not online any longer

 

[jmac00]

I agree, any bonehead could find all my information on line in about 30 seconds. Owning a business in NY automatically gives everyone and their grandmother all your personal information. But the State doesn't need to give the public a list of all my possessions.

 

[OwnTheRide]

Ill put that theory to the test right now. I know someone that applied and was denied. Ill check to see if hes in there.

**Edit** its not online any longer

It's still online, just a lot harder to find. I've tracked it down a couple of times before, after the second time I just saved it. I can email you a copy if you want. Of course, the copy that was posted online is something like 2 years old now, so it's a lot less useful.

I have one small smidgen of possible proof: my wife and I applied for our permits at the same time. She received her permit and I received my denial only a couple days apart. It was around this time that whospackingny.com went live. In the database, she is listed with address and all. I am also listed, but there is no address associated with my name. I suspect that this is telling us that a denied application gets your address removed from the DB but not your name - if nothing else, I think it clearly shows that your name goes in with application, as I had no permit but my name was listed.

(I have since successfully appealed the denial)

 

[arizonajack]

NRA website said the bill is sitting on the Governor's desk waiting to be signed, unless I read it wrong?

You're right.

But it's a different bill than the one I found from last year.

This one is HB 4045 introduced Feb 2012 to replace the one that died.

NRA-ILA | Oregon Governor Will Decide the Fate of CHL Confidentiality Bill

HB 4045 :: Oregon Legislature Bill Tracker - Your Government - The Oregonian