New York Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Seems this one line is left out as a question on the state's website that asks questions on if you need to register.

The interactive tool feature that asks if a gun is semi auto, has a removable magazine, and then 10 characteristics, they forgot one. They forgot one question I still see in the law.

So if my friend saws off the flash suppressor and removes the pistol grip or welds the magazine in, this one clause seems ignored and may make compliance actions worthless:

(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle,...

Seems this can be used by any police, court, DA, Judge to their liking and decide any AR has to be registered and my friend could become a felon.

Just asking a honest question for my friend?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,224 Posts
this has been covered numerous times before. commonplace AR15's or whatever their designations are, are not versions of automatic rifles. There are differences that exempt them from this line in the law.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,522 Posts
"Your friend" can modify a common ar15 so that it doesn't have to be registered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
Seems this one line is left out as a question on the state's website that asks questions on if you need to register.

The interactive tool feature that asks if a gun is semi auto, has a removable magazine, and then 10 characteristics, they forgot one. They forgot one question I still see in the law.

So if my friend saws off the flash suppressor and removes the pistol grip or welds the magazine in, this one clause seems ignored and may make compliance actions worthless:

(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle,...

Seems this can be used by any police, court, DA, Judge to their liking and decide any AR has to be registered and my friend could become a felon.

Just asking a honest question for my friend?
Your friend doesn't have a flash suppressor on his rifle unless it's a pre-ban 1994 Colt. I'd highly advise against "sawing it off".

He's better off selling it intact if he's that worried about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,046 Posts
Really there is no such things as a "semi auto version" of an automatic rifle.

AR type guns may LOOK like an M16, but technically and legally they are different guns. Different brands. Different models.

And the same goes for NYC banning "all AR-15s" - My gun is a Colt Match Target...a different gun / model than an AR-15.

This is why they rely on the BULL **** feature ban...because they can't just ban all guns by naming a type.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Can ARs really be made compliant? YES If ones welds the magazine then there is no need to touch anything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,137 Posts
Agreed. Just replace the mag release button with a nut and washer. No longer detachable without tools. Just like any gun with an internal magazine.
Yup, just like the local shops selling AR's opening themselves up to an even greater risk.
If that method isn't good they are the ones the gov is going after
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Negative, there are better options than welding, if welding thin steel to aluminum is even possible.
Cmag/ASC, pri, h&k, promag are steel not aluminum. A spot weld is all is needed. But you are right a cancelled button is the same. Just a nut and washer with one drop of epoxy accomplishes the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
Really there is no such things as a "semi auto version" of an automatic rifle.
Technically, I would not agree. I do think that language in the law is basically just nonsense legally speaking, but technically I could see a "semi-auto version" of a full auto gun. Basically any select fire gun that was altered so that only semi-auto fire was possible. For instance, an AR with an auto-sear and full hook hammer installed, but the selector switch modified so that auto or burst fire could not be used.

Granted, assuming that the full auto gun was owned by a non-LEO and registered under NFA it would be a vastly stupid move to modify it for semi-auto fire only, but technically I think it would be possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
61 Posts
Technically, I would not agree. I do think that language in the law is basically just nonsense legally speaking, but technically I could see a "semi-auto version" of a full auto gun. Basically any select fire gun that was altered so that only semi-auto fire was possible. For instance, an AR with an auto-sear and full hook hammer installed, but the selector switch modified so that auto or burst fire could not be used.

Granted, assuming that the full auto gun was owned by a non-LEO and registered under NFA it would be a vastly stupid move to modify it for semi-auto fire only, but technically I think it would be possible.
Automatic assault rifles are very expensive and rare and nobody is converting them to anything. AR or AK autoloaders can be converted by removing making sure they do not have any of the features like evil grips, muzzle devices, bayonet lugs. Once you cancel the detachable magazine the autoloader doesn't fall into the category they call assault weapon. This has been very clearly explained by NYSP, lawyers and other people a million times. The same way if you install one of those "galactic" stocks and weld a muzzle cap (no muzzle devices) then the firearm becomes "featureless" just like a mini 14 or a saiga huntin rifle. Use the search in the forum. There are many threads that explain all possible conversion to compliance options. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts
Technically, I would not agree. I do think that language in the law is basically just nonsense legally speaking, but technically I could see a "semi-auto version" of a full auto gun. Basically any select fire gun that was altered so that only semi-auto fire was possible. For instance, an AR with an auto-sear and full hook hammer installed, but the selector switch modified so that auto or burst fire could not be used.

Granted, assuming that the full auto gun was owned by a non-LEO and registered under NFA it would be a vastly stupid move to modify it for semi-auto fire only, but technically I think it would be possible.
And illegal as hell under the NFA
Once a machine gun always a machine gun, under the Federal laws.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
And illegal as hell under the NFA
Once a machine gun always a machine gun, under the Federal laws.
Illegal in what way? I am not saying that the gun would not still be registered with the ATF as a machine gun - it would of course. There is no federal law that I am aware of that would make converting an actual machine gun to semi auto function only illegal. It would still be considered a machine gun and subject to registration regardless like you mentioned.

The key difference is that the ATF defines the receiver and some full auto component parts as special items. If a receiver is manufactured as a pistol, or as full auto, it is always subject to the limits on pistols or full auto, even if you remake the gun into something else. NY does not define the receiver in any special way, NY only cares about the actual function of the gun right now. If NY followed the same rules as the ATF, we would not be able to build fixed mag ARs for instance - if the lower was manufactured to accept a detachable mag then it would always be "capable of accepting a detachable mag" even if the mag was fixed in place.

This is nit picking of course, but this is the legal forum so I hope I get some forgiveness for driving off into the weeds on this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,140 Posts
Illegal in what way? I am not saying that the gun would not still be registered with the ATF as a machine gun - it would of course. There is no federal law that I am aware of that would make converting an actual machine gun to semi auto function only illegal. It would still be considered a machine gun and subject to registration regardless like you mentioned.

The key difference is that the ATF defines the receiver and some full auto component parts as special items. If a receiver is manufactured as a pistol, or as full auto, it is always subject to the limits on pistols or full auto, even if you remake the gun into something else. NY does not define the receiver in any special way, NY only cares about the actual function of the gun right now. If NY followed the same rules as the ATF, we would not be able to build fixed mag ARs for instance - if the lower was manufactured to accept a detachable mag then it would always be "capable of accepting a detachable mag" even if the mag was fixed in place.

This is nit picking of course, but this is the legal forum so I hope I get some forgiveness for driving off into the weeds on this one.
I think you hit exactly on what I meant. An M1 Carbine is a semi auto. An M2 Carbine can never NOT be an NFA item, no matter how you modify it. According to the Feds, a machine gun can not be made into a non machine gun, in the legal sense.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top