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A friend of my at work just recently purchased and AR from a dealer in Putnam County. I forget the make, but the rifle has a fully adjustable stock, pistol grip and a flash hider. The AR also has an MR2 device installed. The owner of the gun shop assured my friend that the AR was fully Safe Act compliant because it had the MR2. I informed my buddy that I had a conversation with a T/Sgt from the NYSPD who informed me that the MR2 device did not meet Safe Act requirements and if caught would be arrested for having a illegal AW.

How was my buddy able to buy a new AR with a fully adjustable stock? I thought that if the gun was an original preban, a collapsible stock was allowed along with a flash hider only if it was purchased before the Safe Act took effect. I told my buddy that I felt the gun shop violated the law when he sold the rifle and also subjected my friend to arrest. Can someone explain how the dealer can sell a new AR with a collapsible stock, pistol grip and a flash hider? assuming the MR2 is non compliant?
 

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Because nobody knows what is compliant and what isn't.
The official line from the state is that things like MR2/bullet mutton/etc will have to be determined in court. So really, it just depends on how the officer who sees him with it feels on the subject, and then it will have to be proven in court.
 

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NYSP don't determine what is legal or illegal. They will arrest anyone they want and let the court sort it out.

if you have any money left you can sue the dealer
 

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The features he bought with the gun are allowed if the rifle does not have a detachable magazine. Some believe the MR2 leaves the magazine as fixed. There are a couple of ways to install the MR2, one of which requires tools to remove it before the magazine can be taken out. Some feel this meets the requirement. One could tack weld the screw that holds the MR2 in place or use lock-tight. Some feel THIS makes the gun compliant. Bottom line, as stated above, people will have to wait for a court of law to decide.
 

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Your buddy and that FFL are testing the waters, something I refuse to do. He'll know whether it's legal if and when he has a problem with it.
 

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OK first and foremost IANAL nor do I play one on TV. Do not take what I am saying as anything more than my opinion. There are a lot of threads that touch on the topic of MR2 and it's legal compliance or lack thereof. The law is vague and the NYS Police has not given any formal indication as to what is a legal modification. If the dealer sold it to him it was based on the imperfect info we all have and a good deal of opinion. The fact that dealers continue to sell MSRs with MR2s installed and are not raided by ATF or NYSP only reinforces the ambiguity if they believe it is not a compliant mod. I doubt he will get any satisfaction by going back to dealer but I may be wrong.

The one thing we know is that unSAFE is that it defines an AW first and foremost as accepting a detachable magazine. While the law does not say the fixed mag must be permanent, the opinion of some is that MR2 meets the requirement of fixing the mag, others do not. Most people do not want to volunteer to be the test case in court. Once you have a detachable magazine, any additional feature makes an MSR an AW (including collapsible stock, pistol grip, bayonet lug, flash hider, etc). At this point I haven't seen any reports of people getting busted for having a full featured MSR at a range as there is no way for anyone to know whether it is pre-unSAFE, post unSAFE, registered or not. I'd be willing to bet if il duce is reelected in November that we will see the arrests happen overnight.

So it comes down to the fact that your friend needs to determine what amount of risk he is comfortable with owning a MSR in its current configuration vs. modifying it to be as "compliant" as possible (fixing mag, removing pistol grip, Thorsden stock). Until 1) unSAFE is overturned, or 2) we see the first couple of arrests/rulings on what is/is not legal we wont know for sure.

I'm sure others will chime in but this horse has been beaten perpetually.
 

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Posted this in another thread, as long as he doesn't do anything illegal or Stupid their is no legal grounds for NYSP to even question the legality of the rifle. the same applies to all firearms, not just mags and pistols

Right to check and inspect magazines v. firearms
Absent some indication of criminal activity, there is no right to inspect the contents of a magazine to ensure that it meets the requirements under the Safe Act. If an officer has probable cause to believe that a particular magazine is unlawful, he or she may seize and inspect it. If there is founded suspicion of criminal activity, the officer may ask for consent to check the magazine. However, the mere existence of a magazine, which may or may not be legal, does not provide probable cause to believe that any law is being broken.
If the weapon is one for which a permit is required, police will be justified in checking the permit to ensure that the person lawfully possesses the firearm. If a permit cannot be produced, the officer would be legally justified in seizing the firearm and conducting an inventory of its contents. In this case, the inventory would include checking the magazine in order to account for each round. However, if the person produces a permit and there are no indications of unlawful conduct, an inspection of the magazine would be unnecessary. In this case, the weapon should be secured temporarily, in the same condition as it was found, for the duration of the stop and returned to the motorist at the conclusion of the encounter.
 

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There is another way to look at this.

If the dealer believes this configuration is legal, and the buyer believes it is legal, and he is arrested for possession of this rifle, according to the SAFE Act, if he believed he was in compliance with the law, he has 30 days in which to register the rifle.

Btw, IANAL, so check the SAFE Act and decide what you (they) are comfortable with when it comes to risk..

FUAC
 

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Yeah, it kills me to see people selling "NY Compliant" firearms when they have no clue what exactly is NY Compliant. But hey, if everyone is doing it, it must be OK.

I guess if NYSP really thought that, they would be going to all these dealers and pressing charges.
 

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Vote in November... Get everyone you know to vote. Astorino... FUAC... Then hopefully your friend and everyone else can take those MR2s and mail them to Cuomo in prison.
 

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I went into my lgs (very popular with local pd) to get 40s&w, a plain clothes officer in there at the time asked to see my pistol permit. The owner of the store had to explain to the officer that it wasn't needed. Nobody knows the law. I seen the full featured ars for sale and got the whole "detachable mag" story from a few stores. We're all playing with fire and waiting to see who get burned first & how bad.
 

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I went into my lgs (very popular with local pd) to get 40s&w, a plain clothes officer in there at the time asked to see my pistol permit. The owner of the store had to explain to the officer that it wasn't needed. Nobody knows the law. I seen the full featured ars for sale and got the whole "detachable mag" story from a few stores. We're all playing with fire and waiting to see who get burned first & how bad.
What store was it? You should of told the officer to mind his own business!
 

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I went into my lgs (very popular with local pd) to get 40s&w, a plain clothes officer in there at the time asked to see my pistol permit. The owner of the store had to explain to the officer that it wasn't needed. Nobody knows the law. I seen the full featured ars for sale and got the whole "detachable mag" story from a few stores. We're all playing with fire and waiting to see who get burned first & how bad.
The "Officer" would have been told to go **** himself had he asked me for that information.
 

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Since none of us , plus our very knowledgable lawyer friends here can't seem to determine if these AR,s are legal . I'm pretty sure that the LGS has consulted with his lawyer about this matter . Would I buy one today ? Yep ! If I was wanting one cause I'm pretty sure that even after some of the SP can't figure out the law and we can't seem to " get a grip " on it either . It seems to me that it must be legal as there are LGS ,s selling the absolute hell out of these rifles .
 

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glad the dealer sold the rifle with the mr2 installed. if i owned an ar, id install an mr2 and feel confident that it meets the intent of the law. the fact is that the magaine is not detachable unless the gun is broken down into an unfireable condition. shooter stated on the forum that he was confident that anyone arrested for possession of an "aw" with the mr2 installed would not be convicted (perhaps not exact words, but this is basically what he said).

the state police do not write the law, they only enforce it. they dont even know if its legal or not, so many ffl's are calling their local trooper barracks and asking them, and im sure many have different opinions. many ffls are also consulting their own attorneys who most likely feel the same as shooter, and are confident that it meets the intent of the law.

i think your friend found a good shop, and a good buy. it wouldnt hurt to be cautious when going to and from the range as the police have set up road blocks near shooting ranges checking inspections, etc... just hoping to find a range bag or something to give them an excuse to push for a search. i dont think anyone wants to have to deal with fighting it in court to prove they are right, but if it came down to it id bet they would win.
 

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R.I.P. to our friend PY-3-21-2016
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If a case involving legality of the Ar-MR2 device ever goes to court the political ambitions of the governor will come into play as the case will eventually end up in a court that the presiding judge will no doubt be in the pocket of the governor. Whatever decision that that governor finds politically better himself at the time will be the final decision. The only other chance will be the SCOTUS. If they would hear such a case. It's doubtful.

Isn't New York a wonderful place? It is, but our government is not.
 

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Do you have the ability to remove the magazine while the rifle is assembled with the mr2 kit on? No. An sks is safe act compliant because the magazine is not removable even though if you disassembled the rifle you could in fact remove the magazine.
 
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