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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Story here. He put a .40 slug through the wall of his apartment, it came to rest in a neighboring apartment. Thankfully nobody got hurt. Wonder if Judge Cawley will take him to task and revoke his pistol license for this? If I was a betting man I'd say that he will....
 

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Story here. He put a .40 slug through the wall of his apartment, it came to rest in a neighboring apartment. Thankfully nobody got hurt. Wonder if Judge Cawley will take him to task and revoke his pistol license for this? If I was a betting man I'd say that he will....
Moron. I just cannot fathom how people can be so careless. I manipulate at least one of my pistols at least twice a day. Remove from safe, point at floor of office (under which is an empty basement), check chamber, insert magazine with spare round, rack, drop empty magazine and replace with full magazine, holster. (Some of the pistols I just drop a spare round in the chamber, but you get the idea...) At no point in the entire operation does my trigger finger actually come near the trigger. When I am done for the day, I reverse the whole affair and lock it back up. If I someday finish fixing the empty basement below me, I plan to buy a bucket and fill it with sand so I still have a safe direction to point it.

Do you know how much thought all of that takes? Zero. So how hard is it really to get yourself in the habit? :mad:
 

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You just cannot forget the basic safety rules that people just think they know inherently and they end up causing stupid crap such as this guy did.

Education is the key to preventing this, coupled with diligence any time you are even near a firearm.

There are no 'gimmies' ot 'takebacks'. Once it's done, it's done. You owe it you yourself, and everyone around you to be a gun safety expert.
 

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Instances like this raise several issues.

Accidents will happen no matter what the instrument - a gun, a car, a swimming pool, a lawn mower.

Should we treat guns like cars - accidents from negligence are expected to occur. We impose civil liability for negligence, and criminal liability only if the act rises to the level of recklessness.

Or should we treat guns like dangerous wild animals - if your animal causes harm you are strictly liable regardless of the circumstances because of the inherent danger of the animal, and your permit to keep such animals will be revoked.

We don't know the circumstances surrounding this incident, but what if it was only negligent? should he lose the right to posses a firearm because of mere negligence? If we applied that rule to cars, there would be fewer traffic jams.
 

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As discussed in another post, there are no 'accidents' with firearms. It would be negligence. A meteor hitting your car is an accident. You hitting another car is negligence. Same thing with a firearm. Although this person may not have meant anything bad or nefarious, the gun went off somehow, most likely with a biological interface digit device on the trigger when it was not safe to do so.

Should this guy lose his guns? I cannot answer that. Should he get the benefit of education and safety training? yes, not matter what.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Should this guy lose his guns? I cannot answer that. Should he get the benefit of education and safety training? yes, not matter what.
He won't lose his long guns (if any). The criminal charge is only a misdemeanor. I suspect he'll lose his pistol permit though. For better or worse NYS gives the licensing officer near total discretion on whether or not to issue or revoke a pistol license.
 

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, the gun went off somehow, most likely with a biological interface digit device on the trigger when it was not safe to do so.
Lol... I really like that!!

We as owners of ANYTHING potentially dangerous have a right to know how to safely own and maintain whatever it maybe. I take ownership of everything serious be it knife, dog, car or firearm. If we neglect our duties we out others in danger and violate their right to safety. As far as penalty... We have laws governing proper use of a motor vehicle and if we fail to follow these laws we are subject to varying degree of punishment. Everything ranging from a class to loss of privilege to drive. So I would say that it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect the same for piss poor firearm handling...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
A51,

What exactly do you have to do to permanently lose your right to drive? We've all heard stories of individuals with numerous DWIs that somehow manage to keep getting drivers licenses. Just what do you have to do to permanently lose your license?

This guy will probably never own a handgun in NYS again. He didn't hurt anybody. If you make a mistake with your car that only causes property damage you don't lose your license forever. Odds are you don't lose it at all unless alcohol or drugs were involved.

I'm not saying he shouldn't lose his pistol license, but the comparison with driving was an interesting one because the penalties seem to be less even if the damage done is worse.
 

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A51,

What exactly do you have to do to permanently lose your right to drive? We've all heard stories of individuals with numerous DWIs that somehow manage to keep getting drivers licenses. Just what do you have to do to permanently lose your license?

This guy will probably never own a handgun in NYS again. He didn't hurt anybody. If you make a mistake with your car that only causes property damage you don't lose your license forever. Odds are you don't lose it at all unless alcohol or drugs were involved.

I'm not saying he shouldn't lose his pistol license, but the comparison with driving was an interesting one because the penalties seem to be less even if the damage done is worse.
My wife and I were discussing yesterday about how it is interesting that we have so many gun control groups, but not really any groups dedicated to motor vehicle control. Considering the deaths from motor vehicle "accidents" are historically higher than the deaths from guns yearly, one would think the public would be outraged and demanding stricter MV control, especially considering that 90% of motor vehicle "accidents" occur because someone was driving like an asshole or completely ignoring traffic laws.

2006 42,642 deaths in motor vehicle accidents in the US

In the U.S. for 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,883; Homicide 12,791; Accident 642; Legal Intervention 360; Undetermined 220. (Note: Legal intervention only counts LEO shootings, this publication lumps legal civilian shootings in homicide.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Indeed JStar. Why does nobody seem to care about as much about motor vehicle accidents?

A few months ago a friend of mine was hit by a careless driver. He was in a crosswalk in downtown Owego and got hit by someone trying to go around another car that was turning left. It put him in the hospital for a week and out of work for nearly twelve weeks while he recovered. The driver got a simple traffic citation.

If my negligent handling of a firearm put someone in the hospital, I would be charged with at least a misdemeanor and possibly a felony. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me. Maybe if we held drivers as accountable as we hold gun owners the roadways would be safer?
 

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Think about it, Take away Drivers License for different infractions and you have everybody and their granny kicking down your door. Comparing to how many have a DL to how many have a Permit. My thinking is it all comes down to quantity of each in the general population. If there is a minimum of 1 DL per house hold in the state, that's a lot of angry voters. Now how many Permit holders per household in the state. Not enough for them to worry about losing cushy seat they got voted into last election.

This is just my opinion.
 

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I do know a guy who lost his DL for life after hitting a killing a homeless man in the city... Very odd, he had only had a few speeding tickets before and no drinking was involved, but he was young and fled the scene.
And I do realize they are not entirely the same BUT perhaps the laws on both need to be changed to accommodate a fair punishment for being careless. It's hard to say what a fair punishment would be, but for endangering the people around him, he at the very least needs some serious schooling on safe gun handling! I don't feel carelessness is excusable when the potential for harming another person is present. IMO I have a duty to ensure that I know how to properly and safely "own" my things. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just how I feel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree with you A51. Was just wondering why carelessness with automobiles is typically punished less severely than carelessness with firearms. Both can and do kill. The ownership of either should come with responsibility. Those who are careless with them should be held accountable.

I'm not sure what would be "fair" for this guy either. I'm just glad that nobody got hurt and we are talking about property damage rather than personal injury.
 
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