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Discussion Starter #1
Drone-Aided Arrest Raises Questions About 4th Amendment - Gun News at Guns.com

I found some of the comments quite amusing, especially the ones for the use of the drones, "Oh they are just like any other piece of surveilance equipment" (that has the capability to loiter over a target at 30,000 feet for hours and use thermal devices to see into everything). The problem is that these drones are more capable than anything the police had up until now, and they can/will be easily abused.

I also love this quote "McDaniel added that in the future the aircraft could be equipped with non-lethal weapons such as Tasers or bean-bag guns". Stop or the drone will TAZ you bro?!?!?!

I do not like the idea that drones are being flown over domestic territory or the fact that some police offices will be buying them, I guess the only thing to do is start building houses that can not be peered into with Thermal vision devices and cutting the budgets of police forces that are looking at aquiring the drones (if they can afford a 300,000 dollar drone then they have too much money).

I guess I just live in a world where my idea of a police officer is a guy that used to walk the street and gets to know the people, not some guy that is sitting in a control room looking into your house. The constitutional answer is going to be interesting.

Change may be good, I just do not like it.
 

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Problem is, that just says they can't use that stuff without a warrant, which we all know means nothing.

How do you stop thermal imaging in general? We say it all the time about the BG -- laws don't apply to them, and I honestly feel that sometimes, laws don't apply to Gov't agencies & police (not that we need to turn this into a ****-on-police thread, i'm just saying)

I certainly don't like the idea of ANYthing flying overhead (manned or unmanned) w/ technology worthy of a war. Honestly, I don't care that my neighbor is growing pot, and I can't think of any other reason why you (gov't/police) would need thermal imaging, short of looking for a body hiding... but to do that flying overhead is simply ludacris, and I agree w/ OP -- if police have money for UAV's, they better have money to put humans on the ground, on the streets, where we need them

I have another comment -- about the judge who says that someone can tell excessive heat in the winter based on how much snow melts, etc... Apparently that guy knows nothing about insulation / home heating, because based on his statement, it would seem like a majority of home owners are growing pot... Have you ever driven around a neighborhood in winter? LOL
 

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Provided they have a search warrant, I don't have a problem with them, just like using thermal imaging.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Provided they have a search warrant, I don't have a problem with them, just like using thermal imaging.
I have sat in an operations center in Afghanistan and watched what a drone could see and do, I do not think they should be used or owned by law enforcment agencies. Just my take on the world as I have seen it and know it.

Jeff,

Already know about that case, doesn't mean that unconstitutional searches wont happen. The USAF has come out with a policy that anything that is collected by drones flying over the USA will be held at the Pentagon for 90 days while they determine what to do with it. If that doesn't worry you then, you have no worries at all.

BTW Jeff I have used the thermal imaging devices on a Bradley (while on guard duty) to peer into tent cities (Bosnia 1997) to see if they were occupied or not, the level of detail that you can see would amaze you.
 

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^ +1

That was in 97. I used thermals in Iraq in 2009, they are very detailed.
 

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i have nothing to hide and im not paranoid.... fly around all day just dont waste my tax money doing it when the bridge down the road from me has been closed for almost 3 years now.
 

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i have nothing to hide and im not paranoid.... fly around all day just dont waste my tax money doing it when the bridge down the road from me has been closed for almost 3 years now.
I have nothing to hide and I am paranoid. No one has a right to see inside my house (thermal imaging)without a warrant.
 

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Unless I'm missing a new advancement in technology, Thermals can't see through walls or windows. So basically their just going to see an updated view of Google Earth.

Personally, I'm more concerned about the tiny UAV's...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thermals read heat differences, which everything in the house has, if you have a fireplace it will warm the things around it at different rates. The differences in tempetures can give a good thermal image of what the house interior looks like.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i have nothing to hide and im not paranoid.... fly around all day just dont waste my tax money doing it when the bridge down the road from me has been closed for almost 3 years now.
I have nothing to hide either, however I do not concent to searches because it is my right not to be searched for no compelling reason.
 

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Jeff,

Already know about that case, doesn't mean that unconstitutional searches wont happen. The USAF has come out with a policy that anything that is collected by drones flying over the USA will be held at the Pentagon for 90 days while they determine what to do with it. If that doesn't worry you then, you have no worries at all.

BTW Jeff I have used the thermal imaging devices on a Bradley (while on guard duty) to peer into tent cities (Bosnia 1997) to see if they were occupied or not, the level of detail that you can see would amaze you.
I have no doubt that we have the capabilities to see detail. If there was a case of unconstitutional search then it would not be allowed as evidence anyway. I've been on a jury and talked to the DA after the case and was amazed at the amount of stuff that was not allowed in court as evidence. No different than someone searching your car or house unconstitutionally. And if they have a warrant then so be it, it's a constitutional search.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Like i said it is a technology Too easy to abuse, and depending on the model used no one would ever know they were being watched.
 

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Unless I'm missing a new advancement in technology, Thermals can't see through walls or windows. So basically their just going to see an updated view of Google Earth.
I have sighted though thermals more than a few times. One time in particular really surprised me. I was looking at a tuck head on during a rain storm. I could see the dark outline of the hood and fenders of the truck a big orange rectangle of the radiator and the red of the engine and of course the occupants, weapons, etc. The neat thing was the engine was running and you could see the dark (cool) fan rotating in between the contrast of the hot ratiator and the even hotter engine.
A thermal has no problems seeing though walls. My local VFD has one which I am sure is not top of the line. It works very well to see if there occupants of a building to go save or just control burn the structure.
 

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The moral of the story, Play stupid games...win stupid prizes.
 

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How do you stop thermal imaging in general?
You have a couple of choices. Raise the interior temp of the structure to around 95-100. Everything will bleed out and very little detail will be observable. Second is to obscure your heat signature to make it the same as surroundings. I had emergency mylar blankets sewn into a poncho liner. Throw it over yourself and as long as you dont have heat poking out a hole they will be blind.

If one wanted to go the tin-foil route they could staple up a mylar type reflective insulation in the rafters of their house. Something like this
http://www.amazon.com/Reflectix-BP48010-48-Inch-10-Feet-Insulation/dp/B000BPAULS
 

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I have nothing to hide, nor am I paranoid... but I'm all for law enforcement having every tool available to them - so long as they use them in accordance with the US Constitution.

But this is nothing ground breaking either. Police have been using manned aircraft for surveillance for decades.
 

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I have nothing to hide, nor am I paranoid... but I'm all for law enforcement having every tool available to them - so long as they use them in accordance with the US Constitution.

But this is nothing ground breaking either. Police have been using manned aircraft for surveillance for decades.
really? what makes you think LE will use any tool in accordance with the Constitution.

Do you have any experience with our justice system? Have you had to go to court.

The police can lie to you....you can not lie to them

Lawyers can lie and deceive you, you can not lie or deceive them.

in other words, nothing in the justice system is in your favor, Even if your innocent.

I have nothing to hide or paranoid either, but giving a para-militaristic organization invasive imaging devices is not a good idea in my opinion
 

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The police can lie to you....you can not lie to them
I learned that while on a jury. Surprised me. They told the guy that they had his car on security camera leaving the scene to get him to confess but did not have any such thing. The detective told this to the whole courtroom while testifying. The defense lawyer asked if that was routine practice and he said it was.
 

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Yeah cops are under no obligation to tell you the truth. Also if you really look at Mirada rights it is NEVER in your interest to talk to the cops if you are being questioned in any crime.

Anything you say or do "can and will" be used against you. It does not say anything you say can and will, or even could be used for you (in your favor).

And in fact if it was brought up as such it would probably be objected and thrown out. So keep your mouth shut until you has a lawyer because there are thousands of ways to incriminate yourself without even knowing that you did.

Call me paranoid but that's how I see it.

Pulled over and asked "any idea why I pulled you over?" No man, I have no clue (even if I did, I'm not saying it)?
 
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