New York Firearms Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
No, I am not here to ask you what one is best. I am here to offer a way at which I applied some math and range time to figure out what works best for me with the template to figure out what might work best for you.

Before I get into that I want to get three little tid bits out of the way.

1. Shot placement reigns key above all else. If you don't believe that I can cite examples of 9mm, .40 and .45 which took 20+ hits to stop an assailant and one of them even made a full recovery. no pistol round is a one shot stopper on its own accord.

2. I choose three calibers with 4 carry guns which meet fbi standards for penetration. The lowest of which is the .380 which would normally be excluded however lehigh recently came out with some neat ammo which solves the penetration expansion trade off you needed to make in the past with that cartridge (it has been independently reviewed as good stuff).

3. I assumed the stretch cavities of these various rounds would be similar and did not have the cavities alter my calculations. I encourage you to look at the highspeed footage of these rounds in ballistics gel and you will see how close they actually are.


Alright now that the nasty stuff is out of the way what I attempted to do is calculate roughly how much "damage" I do with my current primary ccw handguns over an allotted time or in other words I attempted to calculate damage per second (hence forth DPS).

How I measured "Damage":
I choose all FBI compliant chamberings to remove depth out of the equation by assuming all rounds will theoretically hit and penetrate as deep as required for effect and instead I focused on Diameter of the round. I took a single brand for consistency (hornady in this case) and found the average expansions for the three chamberings I had chosen which were .380, .38 spl, and 9mm. To assign a value I rated 1" as 100 points.

The contenders:
I tested this with four handguns, a glock 19, xdsc (9mm), ruger lcp, and ruger lcr in .38.

The ranges:
All rounds were tested at the 5, 10, and 15 yard line to get a feel for how they preform both in the average shooting distances of a defensive shoot out to longer ranges. I would have tested farther but at my personal skill level I began to run into accuracy issues with one of the platforms. all rounds had to fall into the A box of a standard sized target.

Theoretical max damage:
Here is the max damage for the various chamberings I used and their expanded hp average.
.380 per round value: 43.6
.38 spl per round value: 49.3
9mm per round value: 53.7

5 yard line: (5 shot average)
G19 Total time: 1.15 Average split: .23 Total damage: 268.5 DPS: 233.48
LCP Total time: 1.3 Average split: .26 Total damage: 218.0 DPS: 167.69
LCR Total time: 1.22 Average split: .24 Total damage: 219.5 DPS: 179.92
XD9 Total time: 1.23 Average split: .24 Total Damage: 268.5 DPS: 218.29
5 yard average DPS: 199.86

10 Yard Line: (5 shot average)
G19 Total time: 1.78 Average split: .35 Total damage: 268.5 DPS: 150.84
LCP Total time: 2.58 Average split: .51 Total damage: 218.0 DPS: 84.50
LCR Total time: 2.18 Average split: .43 Total damage: 219.5 DPS: 100.69
XD9 Total time: 2.50 Average split: .50 Total damage: 268.5 DPS: 102.87
10 yard average DPS: 110.86

15 Yard line: (5 shot average)
G19 Total time: 2.57 Average split: .51 Total damage: 268.5 DPS: 104.47
LCP Total time: 4.10 Average split: .82 Total damage: 218.0 DPS: 53.17
LCR Total time: 2.53 Average split .50 Total Damage:219.5 DPS: 86.76
XD9 Total time: 2.61 Average split: .52 Total Damage: 268.5 DPS: 102.87
15 yard DPS average: 86.82


Conclusions learned:
1. The theoretical DPS more then halves by shift of a mere 10 yards
2. Similar total damage can be thrown way off by the guns ergonomics and sights but doesn't become pronounced until you extend the distance. (lcp vs lcr)
3. Lesser chamberings seem to keep up with bigger ones at short ranges but can not match or pass them at any distance while suffering at longer distances.

I hope some of this data is helpful to you guys on influencing what gun you carry and perhaps you even test it yourself to see what kind of dps you generate. I would have loved to test this with a .40 and .45 but don't own any currently. My averages speak to my mediocre skill level but I did find I was fairly consistent except all but the micro sized lcp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,180 Posts
Some thoughts:

The results may not be the same if demonstrated with a different brand of ammo, or with a different shooter. Your skill level is obviously going to dictate how fast you put rounds on target as well as how accurate you are. So this is highly subjective. What works well for you may not work well for others.

The other notions are things most of the informed community have held to be true for some time. That it's easier to be accurate while closer isn't really astonishing. Not sure that the damage per round is entirely accurate... because not all rounds will acctually penetrate equally. The diameter of the round isn't the only influence over wound channel... the speed it's traveling also plays a role.

I like the idea of trying to use the scientific method on various firearms and calibers for ccw. But its honestly and extremely personal choice. The motivators for each person are intrinsic. They are abstract ideas which can't always be defined clearly and tested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yep I totally agree this is based on what works best for me and my skill level. The point of this was to show how people I measured it and I showed the data results for good measure. People should measure their results with their own guns and ammo brands testing their own skills to see what fits best for them. I am not recommending any caliber or gun from this test.

the speed increase at shorter distances is not at all surprising but i was surprised how fast certain handguns suffer from the increased distance over others. the drop off of the lcp went from 167-53, less then a third. The xd by comparison went from 208-102 or roughly half and both are very short barrel semi auto firearms.

Speed, where certain style rounds hit versus others, tumble, retained mass, depth etc all play impact to how effective a round is when it strikes. I put all these factors in as fixed not because i dont believe they impact but rather because I wanted a simple formula and my number one thing was placement placement placement. Their is a reasoned I called it "theoretical damage."

I totally agree its a personal choice or we would all carry nearly the same thing! The big elphant in this is I didn't talk about capacity which is an important factor because although it wont alter theoretical dps it will alter total amount of potential damage regardless of how its measured and how much ammo people carry is one of the biggest personal choices of a ccp holder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The data shows it clearly needs a nerf to balance it :D

My friend has a .45 I will try to get some trigger time in on soon so I can really rile people up with 9mm vs .45 data with my novice hands at the wheel!

If anyone else has data on their splits with their various carry handguns I would love to see it in the hopes that trends develop when applying this simple formula.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,180 Posts
Longitudinal.

If you repeat this every month, or every 6 months, or every year... you could have a very realistic picture of your improvment over time. I wouldn't do it every time I go shooting but if you did it periodically you could see what firearms your improve the fastest with. Thats likely to be the ones you shoot the more often with or "fit" you better.

For example if you did this 4 times a year, you could get an average for your shooting in that year with each firearm. Then after two years you could see how effective your training over that period has been (by seeing the difference in your time and accuracy).

Obviously it would be faster to see this done monthly but that may dip into your normal CCW practice (assuming you practice your draw, reload, etc with your carry gun). Not to mention it would be expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,533 Posts
When I carry my 1911s .45 is the best. When I carry my M9A1 9mm is the best. When I carry my judge .45lc/.410 is the best. When I carry my S&W J frame .38 is the best. But that's just me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
1.) Personally I wouldn't consider this a test of which cartridge is more effective. You are not using the same firearm for each cartridge (for obvious reasons). If you choose the right weight and velocity self defense bullet, you will get a 38 special and a 9 mm to expand and penetrate to the same diameter and depth. 380 still has some trouble, but the ammo is developing nicely.

2.) Your split times are more "useful" in my opinion

3.) For self defense situations, your shot to to shot split on target was nearly identical at all ranges. I would argue the LCP at 15 yards would require more training to shoot quickly. But also the LCP isn't really a 15 yard gun. If I had to guess, you normally shoot your glock 19 at 10 yards when you plink at the range.

4.) Interesting to see how your splits change at variable distances.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top