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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you're a Unrestricted Carry permit holder (or applicant), you owe it to yourself to drop a dime and make a call to your State Legislator to have "Proper Cause" more clearly defined in Penal Code 400 (2) (f) ! Thats the code required for the issuance of an Unrestricted Concealed Carry.

Heres the deal, and its going to trip EVERYONE up. With the (un)Safe Act, pistol permit holders will be required to re-new every 5 years. NO REMINDERS WILL BE SENT! Its up to YOU. No big deal so far, right? Mark it on your calender? Right?

HERES THE GOTCHA! You will then be required to show "Proper Cause" or you'll get a restricted license. YOUR LICENSE CAN BE YANKED AT ANY TIME FOR NO REASON! READ Penal codes 265 and 400!

Now , ask yourself "Whats Proper Cause?"

The canned response is:
"demonstrate a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession."

Carry large sums of money? NOPE
Work/Live in a bad area? NOPE
In fear of your life? NOPE
Own your own business? NOPE
Physically unable to defend yourself? NOPE

The ONLY permissible response is a DOCUMENTED assault (with police report to substantiate it) or death threat (documented)


This was the result of many NYC refusals, which most were due to
extenuating circumstances. I believe it was Klenosky, that the original text was passed. Heres someting you need to educate yourself with, and google/read the cases cited. http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisio...0f9cad1-a549-4334-9f6b-dbbfee6c0979/4/hilite/

Now, use your head. If Cuomo is going to disarm NY, he cant take them from your home LEGALLY due to Heller v District of Columbia, BUT They can restrict the hell out of everywhere else. And guess who is first in line? UNRESTRICTED PERMIT HOLDERS.

So if you value your unrestricted, or you think you may want one, you better get a letter to your State Legislator asking them to broaden the definition to allow the judges to issue for RESPONSIBLE people EXPRESSING SINCERE DESIRE and if you want, add in those who have secured additional training or experience.

If you dont think it will happen, dont complain when they yank you down to home/sportsman. Just remember, the more responsible unrestricted permit holders that are out there, the less they will mess with you.
 

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The flip side of this is:

Each of us qualified to obtain the CCW under the exact same regulations. So, unless there has been a change in your status there should be no issue with a renewal. They may want to change the rules, but it would be difficult given the existing scrutiny required to obtain the CCW in the first place.
 

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Gonna need a source. Conjecture on my permit being changed from unrestricted to restricted when I renew is just that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Conjecture? Heres the deal. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES to your permit, for a Judge to amend them. Its the LAW. The term is in one of the case laws. Its similar to the pronunciation "Sue sorta" but I cant remember the spelling. WILL they? Who knows, but it sure as heck looks like it. WHY ELSE WOULD THEY MAKE YOU RENEW? You KNOW as soon as you fart, they pull your permit. The permit office gets a call for ANY infraction, or if you hit Mental Health Facility. I pray Im not correct in this assertion guys.
 

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And that amendment by a judge is an administrative right, not LAW.

By the way, I never had to show "Proper cause" when I initially applied for my permit 2 years ago and was given an unrestricted right off the bat. For it to changed to restricted now, wouldnt a judge have to show "proper cause" besides his bias against gun owners? This new "law" doesnt have any wording in it (to my knowledge, thats why I asked for a source) to direct or define a reason for a court officer to revoke or change ADMINISTRATIVE restrictions.
 

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Not that i agree with the renewal, I can tell you from actual knowledge that one of the reasons why the want this renewal is to find all of the lost permits of the deceased. There is a rough estimate of 25,000 guns that are just out there. Kinda like lost guns. PP holders die and nothing is happening with the guns owned by them. Again, I think it is BS that we need to renew, a lifetime Pistol Permit is about the only positive part of NY permit process. Nearly every state that issues Permits have a renewal process, I for one do not believe that they are going to "down grade" our permits.
 

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I was reading through my penal/criminal law book last night, and I was a little confused, when you renew you have to go through the whole background check process again correct? Its under 400.00 *4 "Investigation, Before a license is issued or RENEWED, there shall be an investigation...." how long could that take, and will you have to surrender your pistols during that investigation. Sorry if that has been asked before
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Timmy, Im going through the BS now. I showed "Just Cause" in multiple ways, yet was refuted with case laws that showed people that had been arrested and not even having pistol licenses, then arrested. "Just Cause" was listed as denial. (Really? how about the arrests?) Feel VERY fortunate you don't have to go through this nonsense. Your timing was better than mine. Sandy Hook Scare has put the screws to everyone around here. Let me be clear, I dont mind LEGITIMATE legislation for gun safety, but for gods sakes, make it so its clear. When a JUDGE wont even tell you what PROPER CAUSE is, other than the canned response, you know its a battle you likely wont win, unless you are already a victm that was fotunate enough to survive. And this is AFTER completely multiple safety /law courses.
 

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Folks, what the OP points out holds water. What he is trying to bring attention to is EXACTLY what
the judge in Saratoga County refrences when he denies requests for unrestricted permits.
Has happened to many of us. Perhaps you are one of the fortunate who has an unrestricted permit from years ago. Or from a county that gives unrestricted at present. However that could easily change with the stroke of a pen at renewal time.
Don't practice FUDDISM and think it will never apply to you.
 

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With the exception or renewing, this is how the permit process has always been. Restriction hood no weight of law. If you think judges are just going to stay pulling permits your as nutty as the left wingers that think gun laws stop crime
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
In my county, we went from "Bring your application in, and you'll get whatever you ask for" , to "demonstrate a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession. or you dont get it". Im serious guys. Take it for what its worth. It only takes ONE thing. A change of the issuing Judge. Take one thats on a mission, like trying to stay on the good side of the Bar, and you will see what I am dealing with. As far as amending existing permits, its a VERY real possibility. You don't think so? Fine. I could care less. But remember the snide remarks you posted when they pull your unrestricted. JUDGES ARE VOTED OUT. Cuomo has been in Attack mode, if you havent noticed.
 

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We are not a Shall Issue state. judges can do whatever they want when it comes to placing restrictions on lifelong permit holders that never had restrictions before. This was happening in Nassau and Suffolk Counties. I believe Erie County is another bad one that only issues restricted permits for the first 5 years.

I am more concerned with permits getting revoked because of some prescribed drug one might be on. One of the requirements for renewal is to surrender access to your health records to the State Police. No surrender...no renewal. Surrender and they find reason and they not only revoke your permit but take every other gun you own and place you on the NICS list as ineligible to purchase a firearm.

I would rather see a movement started where no one complies with this BS. Every permit holder in NY would have to get on board though. Renewals get us nothing for our money. The County Sheriff was required to perform a NICS check on anyone that wanted to amend their permit if it hadn't been done in the last 5 years. They didn't charge a dime to do this. So they have the information on permit holders. If the only reason they want to start a renewal program is to find those guns owned by previously deceased persons, why not simply send out a mailing to all permit holders asking if they are still alive? I think they are doing it for two reasons. 1) to obtain medical records from all CCW holders, and 2) revoke, or restrict as many permits as possible, whether that revocation comes because you forgot to renew or because of some other reason. I'm sure they will be cross checking with past domestic violence issues, restraining orders, orders of protection, and a gambit of other non-qualifiers. Let's just keep trusting our government, after all, they passed this law called the SAFE Act that merely targeted legal gun owners and did absolutely nothing to deter crime.
 

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Fear monger much? maybe if you caps a few more words i'll really understand and quiver.

Noncompliance. Until I can leave this State I'm not complying with any BS law. It's called civil disobedience.

Oh well, just add this to the many other reasons to leave NY, no sweat.
Ain't that the truth, brother. I'd rather fight this from a free state. Just going to take me a while to get to one.
 

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........One of the requirements for renewal is to surrender access to your health records to the State Police. No surrender...no renewal. Surrender and they find reason and they not only revoke your permit but take every other gun you own and place you on the NICS list as ineligible to purchase a firearm.
Where is that in the SAFE law?
 

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So, someone who has MS or some other condition where they can handle a firearm, but cannot fight back or retreat quickly has no right to defend their life, nice you effin liberal Nazis.
 
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