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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I am looking into a new "red dot" for one of my personal guns, and I have really taken a liking to the trijicon line of products. However the one reflex dot site that I am drawn to seems to only have an Amber colored dot.

The model I keep finding myself looking at is the Rx30 I like the larger 42mm lens and the no batteries to ever worry about is a big bonus. The amber dot has me a bit worried though.

So because I have no personal experience with an Amber dot and I am wondering if any of you guys have? How does it show up in daylight?

I also have my eye on the RMR, but I am not a fan of how small the window is.
Thanks,

Brad
 

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Hey Brad,

I do not have any experience with the Amber dot but I would assume that like the red dot when turned up high enough it will show in bright daylight. The RMR is a decent piece of kit. It is rugged and although its small you have to remember that your bringing it up into your fovial cone/visual plane and focusing on the dot, not the occular or hood of the sight.

I just got an Aimpoint T1 and ran it on my Spikes Piston rifle this weekend. It is the cats pajamas of red dots that I have used to date. A little pricey but you get what you pay for and there is a good reason Aimpoint is at the top of the market.

Chris
 
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Chris,

I’m unfamiliar with the term “Foveal Cone”.

My Google-Fu fails me. Although I was unable to learn exactly what the “Foveal Cone” is I was able to surmise that it might be that region in front of the eye where the image is focused on that part of the retina which allows for acuity of vision.

Is that correct?

It's a neat term but I wouldn't want to use it if I don't know what it means.
 

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Chris,

I'm unfamiliar with the term "Foveal Cone".

My Google-Fu fails me. Although I was unable to learn exactly what the "Foveal Cone" is I was able to surmise that it might be that region in front of the eye where the image is focused on that part of the retina which allows for acuity of vision.

Is that correct?

It's a neat term but I wouldn't want to use it if I don't know what it means.
Try this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis_in_macula
 

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Chris,

I'm unfamiliar with the term "Foveal Cone".

My Google-Fu fails me. Although I was unable to learn exactly what the "Foveal Cone" is I was able to surmise that it might be that region in front of the eye where the image is focused on that part of the retina which allows for acuity of vision.

Is that correct?

It's a neat term but I wouldn't want to use it if I don't know what it means.
My spelling was incorrect so that may be why you had trouble google fu'ing it.

This small area of the eye is responsible for extreme focus/high resolution such as on small objects like the front sight of a pistol.

An easier way of putting it may be to simply say the "visual plane" but it is important in my mind that people are aware just how close or near to this foveal cone they need to drive the pistol or align the sights of the rifle during rapid target acquisition if we are striving to achieve accurate shot placement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the input guys.

I have been reading more reviews, and I guess the amber dot is fine in bright daylight but if you are coming into bright light from a darker area the dot does wash out. I will continue to research this, but I just need to get something picked out and get some range time with it.

Chris that aimpoint has had my eye for a long time, I really like the micro size and the lower weight.

Arg so many choices!
 

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Brad;

The Amber dot is supposed to be quicker than a traditional red dot; for whatever reason that is. I have a friend who swears by them and has filled my ears with the 'science' of the amber being more distinguishable against a neutral background yada yada ya.

Now, thing to watch with Trijicon, they are not powered so there is no turning up the brightness. They have greatly improved the technology since they started with the fiber optic/tritium sights. They still do have some issue with washing out depending on the model you pick up. The acog's and other 'tactical' line items are more resistant to wash out. They also have issues when using them in low light. The reticle is pretty hard to see or invisible depending on the model once again. Their acupoints don't have tritium so the reticle isn't illuminated in low light, where as the acog is visible.

Personally, for 1x the way to go (imho that is) is the EoTech 516.A65 (AA batteries).
You get a 65 MOA ring with a 1 MOA center dot that stays 1 MOA regardless of magnification, something NO other optics can do. Sure Aimpoints have better battery life but they also cost more and have a larger dot. A 1 MOA dot means that at 100m that dot is 1", at 300m that dot covers up 3", now compare that with the 3.5-1.5 MOA dots of the AImpoints.

Eotechs are much cheaper and rugged as hell and hold their zero as good as any other mil-spec optics should.
 

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One last thing. I noticed you were interested in the RMR...

Those are really intended to be a back-up that is mounted on the ACOG, not really a good stand alone optic. They are 4-13 MOA... that is ridiculously HUGE... That is for close range <50m ONLY.

Unless you are planing on only having extreme close range optics use, or are sticking this on a pistol I would look for another optics choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sprout, the Dot size some of he the RMR's had me thinking man those suckers are huge for anything other than CQB.

I have used Eotec's in the past and they really don't do it for me (personally). While they are a great optic, they are a bit to bulky and have a "heavy" feel to ME. Maybe I just need to spend some time with one of the newer ones we have in stock. The only other big negative Eotec's have in my book is the poor battery life when compared to an Aimpoint.

I have also used and like the "tube" style in the past, and tend to like this style more, but I have not had a chance to personally run something as small as the t-1. The super light weight of the T-1 and the crazy long battery life they offer keep sucking me back in.

What I want in a red dot:

Fast target acquisition
light weight
Long battery life (if a battery is needed)
Does not wash out
Easy to adjust on the fly
water or rain proof would be nice.

The more research I do, the more it looks like an Aimpoint is in my future.

Aimpoint GB anyone? lol
 

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I use a Triji reflex 1x24 with the amber dot every day ... They are consistently accurate and very reliable and not needing batteries is nice. Nothing wrong with this sight ... the dot stays consistent and only suffers the minor bloom others do (accept my Aimpoints). I easily score perfect qual scores with it every year in both night and day shoots. these sight take 24/7 abuse on an AR platform from multiple users every day and we use the same guns off the line to qual with ... They are tough and work.

Also we have 4MOA dot size.
 

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People make to much out of dot size on these types of sights ... If your doing precision work it's very unlikely to be with a tactical carbine. Regardless most shooters aren't really that much better than 3 or 4 MOA even on a bench with a red dot regardless brand. Use the the correct tool for the job ... precision shooting, precision scoped rifle.
 

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I have owned a trijicon reflex with an amber triangle, and currently own a 1.5X compact ACOG with the same reticle. One issue to be aware of is that some washout of the reticle on a white wall occurs in conjunction with illuminating with a bright light. On my ACOG, you still see the black outline of the etched reticle, rather than the amber colored tritium illuminated reticle.

The triangle allows for precise shooting using the tip. I actually prefer this reticle over the dot for long(er) range shooting. I tend to use my carbine topped with this optic if I know my shooting will go out much past 200 yards, as a 4MOA dot will start to cover a lot of territory beyond that.

I prefer Aimpoints over Eotechs, largely because I have seen a number of Eotechs fail in classes and competition. Both battery and electronics issues. I also don't like the on/off push button feature, and dot intensity adjustment. The Aimpoint is a simple roll of the dial. The carbine I do most of my shooting with wears a 4MOA ML2.

While not a direct comparison, I used to own a newer gen Bushnell Holosight. While this optic worked well on a number of my guns, it ate up N batteries like crazy in cold weather. I had it on a shotgun one deer season, and would use up a battery in a day of temps in the teens. Probably not much of an issue with the new Eotechs.
 

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issue to be aware of is that some washout of the reticle on a white wall occurs in conjunction with illuminating with a bright light. On my ACOG, you still see the black outline of the etched reticle, rather than the amber colored tritium illuminated reticle.
This also occurs with the red dots and is a huge issue when operating a weapon mounted light and optic in low/no light. Most people think that in low light the optic should be dialed down so the dot or reticle is not as bright. Like Marc mentions, if your using the optic in conjunction with a white light and have to illuminate a target that white light will wash out the dot when set at a low intensity level. If the dot is dialed up to a high setting it will not wash out.

Another way to get around this problem if you pick up your gun and have to hurry (don't have time to dial in the exact dot intensity level) and one of several reasons I like the aimpoints more than the eotech is that in low light I can operate the aimpoint with the front lens cap up. IF you utilize the optic with both eyes open as they are meant to be used the eye looking through the optic will see the red dot on the black surface of the inside of the cap while the other eye picks up the image of your threat or target and the mind merges the two.
 

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This also occurs with the red dots and is a huge issue when operating a weapon mounted light and optic in low/no light. Most people think that in low light the optic should be dialed down so the dot or reticle is not as bright. Like Marc mentions, if your using the optic in conjunction with a white light and have to illuminate a target that white light will wash out the dot when set at a low intensity level. If the dot is dialed up to a high setting it will not wash out.

Another way to get around this problem if you pick up your gun and have to hurry (don't have time to dial in the exact dot intensity level) and one of several reasons I like the aimpoints more than the eotech is that in low light I can operate the aimpoint with the front lens cap up. IF you utilize the optic with both eyes open as they are meant to be used the eye looking through the optic will see the red dot on the black surface of the inside of the cap while the other eye picks up the image of your threat or target and the mind merges the two.
This is good advice ... Chris obviously knows what he's talking about.
 

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IF you utilize the optic with both eyes open as they are meant to be used the eye looking through the optic will see the red dot on the black surface of the inside of the cap while the other eye picks up the image of your threat or target and the mind merges the two.
I never thought of that. that's a pretty cool idea. How close is your point of impact to your point of aim if you do that?
 

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I never thought of that. that's a pretty cool idea. How close is your point of impact to your point of aim if you do that?
Pretty close but everyone is different and it is obviously not meant to be a long range shooting solution. Like everything it takes practice and some getting used to.
 

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Sprout, the Dot size some of he the RMR's had me thinking man those suckers are huge for anything other than CQB.

I have used Eotec's in the past and they really don't do it for me (personally). While they are a great optic, they are a bit to bulky and have a "heavy" feel to ME. Maybe I just need to spend some time with one of the newer ones we have in stock. The only other big negative Eotec's have in my book is the poor battery life when compared to an Aimpoint.

I have also used and like the "tube" style in the past, and tend to like this style more, but I have not had a chance to personally run something as small as the t-1. The super light weight of the T-1 and the crazy long battery life they offer keep sucking me back in.

What I want in a red dot:

Fast target acquisition
light weight
Long battery life (if a battery is needed)
Does not wash out
Easy to adjust on the fly
water or rain proof would be nice.

The more research I do, the more it looks like an Aimpoint is in my future.

Aimpoint GB anyone? lol
I have used Eo's, Aimpoints and ACOG's in the past (issued) and have owned an EoTech.

The battery performance of EoTech's while still not even close to that of the Aimpoint's has been improved greatly (the Rev. F models), the exact specs are on their site. They are rated at 1,000 hours of continuous ON which is about 42 Days of leaving the thing on 24/7 (which they auto-off after 6-hours (which you can turn off btw)). That battery life is for AA's only, not sure what improvement the Li-ion batts get.

I shoot pretty much every weekend and had used the same standard alkaline AA's for about a year and a half without a need to change them. In addition to use at the range I had used it to doink around the house as well. They weren't even close to being dead, there is a 20% battery warning built in that pulses the reticle for like 10 sec. when batt power is below 20% and never received that warning before selling off my Eo in a random act of stupidity.

I am probably going to be picking up another just because they are that good, to me at least lol.

The reason why they use more juice is that they use a laser diode and not a lower batt usage LED like Aimpoints and other 'red dots'. It is definitely an issue of trade offs. The zero parallax, unlimited eye relief, lack of front-side bleed and durability are what turned me on to them. They are certainly too cool for words in my book. As far as weight, they did start making a more compact model, as I believe you stated, that take up less real estate and weigh less. The only drawback to them is that they are not in AA, which to me makes more sense to have AA as it is a heck of a lot easier to come by AA batts and they are also cheaper so you can stock up on them easier and more than likely other items in your kit will use AA as well.

Just something to consider, I swear I get no money from EoTech for being a fan boy lol.
 

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Pretty close but everyone is different and it is obviously not meant to be a long range shooting solution. Like everything it takes practice and some getting used to.
Heh, speaking of lights ;)

If CQB I will just use the flashlight as an aiming point. Within 25m the bullet is pretty much going to hit where the light is hitting. I never used the two in conjunction though that will give me something to try one of these weekends.

Chris do you ever train to run CQB with just using natural point of aim? Before getting optics when running CQB we would use our off hand and pointer finger running parallel with the bore and use that finger to aim since it was impossible to use weapon sights with night vision goggles on. Surprisingly I achieved more 1-shot kills on the balloon filled dummies than running day time and using optics.

While using sights is always preferred, it doesn't hurt to be able to hit your target without them ;)
 
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