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Had to take a trip to small claims court today for work, why is not relivant just the fact I had to go through the metal detector. I carry at work, I know it's illegal to bring a gun to court which is why I locked it up before I went. But I left my holster on. The guy starts to question why I have a holster. My response was " because I carry a pistol at work" he asked where the pistol was. My response was " not here".

If le ask where ur guns are based on the fact u own a holster do u have to tell them?
 

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you dont have to tell him squat! if he is being an arrogant ******* id give him the same treatment back, if he is just being curious and asking in a professional manner then id give him the same respect back. you are not required to tell him where you keep your firearms because its not on you.
 

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I support your answer...the problem is leo's can be pricks and bait people and get away with it. I was stopped by a NY Trooper and he was young/big and a prick. After the ordeal was over I asked him if that's what they taught at the academy and he just smiled. No answer...just a smile.
 

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Probably just seeing if you left it in your car in the parking lot since that is also technically federal property.
 

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Had to take a trip to small claims court today for work, why is not relivant just the fact I had to go through the metal detector. I carry at work, I know it's illegal to bring a gun to court which is why I locked it up before I went. But I left my holster on. The guy starts to question why I have a holster. My response was " because I carry a pistol at work" he asked where the pistol was. My response was " not here".

If le ask where ur guns are based on the fact u own a holster do u have to tell them?
Lets be clear:
It is NOT illegal to bring a gun to Court. It is against POLICY to carry a gun in Court unless you are an on duty LEO.

If you have an unrestricted carry permit, many Court houses will simply voucher the gun for you until you leave. Others that have no facilities to safeguard a gun will simply deny you access to the building.

Upon seeing an empty holster, ANY LEO is going to ask about the gun. IF that Court has voucher procedures, and you told the Officer the gun was in your car, he would have offered to have you bring it in and voucher it for safe keeping.

Another thread started over total nonsense.

And by the way, unless you showed a permit at the metal detectors, and empty holster means A CRIMINAL COMING TO COURT SAW THE SECURITY AND STASHED THE GUN IN THE BUSHES.

Trust me, over the years hundreds of guns have been recovered from the bushes in front of Court Houses. Many facilities have someone outside in the morning in street clothes watching for the next ILLEGAL gun stasher. I personally collared a guy hiding a gun in the rear of a Court House.

Again. THESE ARE CRIMINALS coming to Court. They should NOT have guns.

You are taking this much too personally. All you needed to say was: "I have a permit but I left the gun at work because I know I can't bring it here".
That would be the end of the conversation.
 

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Lets be clear:
It is NOT illegal to bring a gun to Court. It is against POLICY to carry a gun in Court unless you are an on duty LEO.
Let's see if I can muddy that up a bit: what I've quoted above is correct, but it's important to note that rules of the NYS Office of Court Administration have the force and effect of law.

I'm still trying to find out what exactly that means. It's clear what it means in a general sense.
 

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Let's see if I can muddy that up a bit: what I've quoted above is correct, but it's important to note that rules of the NYS Office of Court Administration have the force and effect of law.

I'm still trying to find out what exactly that means. It's clear what it means in a general sense.
You are NOT correct.
Only the Legislature can make law.
What it means is that, by LAWFUL Court Order, Court Officers and Security Personnel have the legal authority to prevent weapons from entering the Courts. That includes, by the way, even on duty Police if the Administrative Judge orders it.

If you choose not to comply, and the gun is legal, you will first be ordered to leave. If you refuse, you will be arrested for trespass, NOT CPW.

Of course, the gun will be seized and your permit will be forfeit.

There was a case in Nassau County where a person with a restricted target permit brought his gun to Court. I don't know if he asked to voucher it or they found it on the search, but it was taken from him, the Pistol License Section was notified, and his permit was suspended. I was told this personally by the Officer at PLS.

The reason I asked is because the "handbook" says right in it that you may not take a gun to Court. So I inquired, since I do sometimes visit Court and, depending on the purpose of my visit, my gun may not even be vouchered. I was informed that this POLICY does not apply to retired LEOs, and "possibly" not to people with a business carry permit (your BUSINESS PURPOSE could indeed take you to a Court House).

So no, it is not illegal. It is administrative. But unlike your local movie theater, the Administrative Judge has the legal authority to control weapons in the building. And if you don't like the policy, what are you going to do, sue him in his own Court? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

BTW, Federal Courts absolutely prohibit weapons in the building. ONLY their own Marshals carry. It is quite common to see on duty Federal Uniformed LEOs there with empty holsters.

When I had to go to Federal Court in Brooklyn, they did provide gun lockers at the entrance for LEOs to secure their weapons. There was no vouchering, just put the gun in the box and take the key.
 

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Hahaha, some of these threads...

I'm new here and can see why a few of my earlier posts might have been misinterpreted... But really, OP, your title is a bit misleading as the post is not consistent with the title.

Bottom line is if you are venturing to a place with a large body of officers or a controlled access building, be it Federal, State or Local municipality, you should expect a possible encounter and potential questions. No need to be abrasive, I would've asked why he was asking?

Looking at it from a lighter side...
Did you think maybe he wondered if you dropped it? Lol...
Has happened you know...

scosgt... Hahaha court houses are a well known place to find and obtain weapons (outside)!
 

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I was actually able to get into the monroe county court house (jury duty) with a .22LR round in my pocket. I had no idea it was there until I got home that afternoon.
 

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I was actually able to get into the monroe county court house (jury duty) with a .22LR round in my pocket. I had no idea it was there until I got home that afternoon.
The sensitivity was turned down on the scanners. They are calibrated to a derringer sized gun, one .22 round could get through.
 

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Hahaha, some of these threads...

I'm new here and can see why a few of my earlier posts might have been misinterpreted... But really, OP, your title is a bit misleading as the post is not consistent with the title.

Bottom line is if you are venturing to a place with a large body of officers or a controlled access building, be it Federal, State or Local municipality, you should expect a possible encounter and potential questions. No need to be abrasive, I would've asked why he was asking?

Looking at it from a lighter side...
Did you think maybe he wondered if you dropped it? Lol...
Has happened you know...

scosgt... Hahaha court houses are a well known place to find and obtain weapons (outside)!
Spoken like a true Court observer.
 

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You are NOT correct.
Only the Legislature can make law.
Funny, I dodn't think I said anything about courts making law.

Perhaps you should read up on what is meant by the phrase "force and effect of law," since that is what I said.

What it means is that, by LAWFUL Court Order, Court Officers and Security Personnel have the legal authority to prevent weapons from entering the Courts. That includes, by the way, even on duty Police if the Administrative Judge orders it.

If you choose not to comply, and the gun is legal, you will first be ordered to leave. If you refuse, you will be arrested for trespass, NOT CPW.
There, that's much closer to reality, though still off. Asking/ordering the person to leave is an optional step. Contrast that with how the force and effect of law doesn't apply to "No Guns" signs: no trespassing has occurred until the carrier has been asked to leave and refuses.

This is the primary difference between something that does not carry the force and effect of law (such as "No guns" signs) and something that does (such as court rules).
 

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There, that's much closer to reality, though still off. Asking/ordering the person to leave is an optional step. Contrast that with how the force and effect of law doesn't apply to "No Guns" signs: no trespassing has occurred until the carrier has been asked to leave and refuses.


This is the primary difference between something that does not carry the force and effect of law (such as "No guns" signs) and something that does (such as court rules).

Your post makes no sense no matter how many times I read it.
Court rules are not LAWS. You can not be charged with violating Court rules. You CAN be charged with CONTEMPT, which is a charge specified in both the Penal Law, the Judiciary Law and probably the Family Court Act and other LAWS.

NO offense has been committed unless the person refuses to leave when ordered. THAT is a violation of LAW.

Violating "Court Rules" is not a chargeable offense. Therefore I don't know what you mean by "Force and Effect" of Law.

If you search online, you will be able to find a document titled: "Rules of the Chief Judge".
THOSE are the COURT RULES.

I have never heard of anyone being arrested and charged with violating the "Rules of the Chief Judge". Those are NOT laws.
They are the rules for the orderly operation of the Courts.

In the Federal System, it is a violation of LAW to bring a firearm into a Federal facility, and can be charged criminally. There is no such law in New York. It is a Court rule that no guns are allowed. The only CHARGE that can inure is TRESPASSING if you refuse to leave. There is no inherent crime in bringing a LEGAL gun into Court, and you don't get charged with violating the "rules".

Now in contrast, an Opinion of the Attorney General has the "force and effect of law". Until such time as a Court over rules it.

Please show me some authority that Court rules have the "force and effect of law" in the context we are speaking of.

There may be some authority as to the conduct of lawyers, but that is a different topic.
 

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I don't understand some guys or they don't realize the background of some of the posters here. ScoSgt is a qualified expert on ny state court security period. Who do you think enforced those court admin rules and/or supervised the enforcement. He did. Trust me if your day to day job for 30 years is that, you tend to know your area of expertise. Laws/ court house procedures might have changed over the years but not that much. When I worked for a different agency in a non enforcement capacity ( before I was a cop) in the 90's you would see these perps carry weapons on them and stash them in the bushes before going into court or to see their probation officer. In one office the DA worked out of the metal detectors were not on the ground floor. You could ride the elevator up to your floor and see the perps stash their weapons along the ceiling of the elevator car before they got to the floor with the metal detectors. Imagine you are unarmed, riding the elevator with armed felon going to see his probation officer or the DA and you are seeing him pull the gun or knife to hide it. It was an everyday occurrence for a while. But it was the 90's.
 
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