AK-47, 3 questions

**linux3** · 04-21-2010, 09:32 PM

Three questions about this rifle:
Russian RAK AK47 Rifle Red Classic ON SALE

1) Is Atlantic Firearms a reputable dealer?
2) Is Russian American Armory a good builder?
3) Expensive I know but I'm looking for an 'Old School' AK. Am I stupid or does it fit the bill?

**Bill** · 04-21-2010, 09:58 PM

1)?
2)?
3) lots of evil features hope its pre '94 better to buy an SKS w/detachable mags and 2000 rounds rounds of ammo for that price IMO

**hexidismal** · 04-21-2010, 10:06 PM

1 and 2 are yes at least from what I've heard.

#3 though.. a lot would need to be changed to make it NY legal. Your best choice for an 'old-school' ak is to find a pre ban.

**RayKnobs** · 04-21-2010, 11:55 PM

Isn't it just a Saiga converted to look like an AK instead of the carbine it started out as?

**Sprout47** · 04-22-2010, 12:53 PM

Yes Atlantic is a good company. RAA is the current importer of Saiga rifles. They are a good importer and Izhmash is the producer of AK's for the Russian military. You can convert a Saiga yourself and have the same rifle but this would proba ly give you what you're after. I would recomend a Saiga based AK anyday.

**linux3** · 04-22-2010, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout47

Yes Atlantic is a good company. RAA is the current importer of Saiga rifles. They are a good importer and Izhmash is the producer of AK's for the Russian military. You can convert a Saiga yourself and have the same rifle but this would proba ly give you what you're after. I would recomend a Saiga based AK anyday.

Thanks.
I looked at the RAA wibsite and they all look new. I want an old style AK.

**RayKnobs** · 04-22-2010, 10:10 PM

How much do you want to spend?

AK Rifles - AR15.COM

**Sprout47** · 04-23-2010, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by linux3

Thanks.
I looked at the RAA wibsite and they all look new. I want an old style AK.

They are new, what do you mean by old-style?

The Saiga's are based off of the updates made to the AK through the AKM and AK74. The most notable differences being, 90* gas block instead of the 45* on AK47 and AKM (this reduces fouling related from part of the jacket getting sliced off as the bullet travels down the barrel and clogging up the gas port), they use an AK74 front trunnion and piston and bolt carrier group (this is lighter and thinner/less material than those on previous AK models, which is supposed to reduce recoil momentum leading to more accurate rapid/auto fire and less wear and tear on the receiver). With exception to the gas block, it would be hard to tell the difference between a saiga that has been converted with wooden laminate furniture and a slant brake installed from an AKM and it will more than likely shoot better. The AK in my avatar is my 5.45 Saiga converted to look like a mid 80's AK74.

So you know, it doesn't get much more authentic than a Saiga, they are made in the factory that produced the original production run of AKs, and continue to produce for the Russian Army, and Kalashnikov, and his son, still work at the factory. So rest assured knowing that the creator of the original had some part in the design of your rifle and not some Cold-War diplomatic gesture to a country that still has donkeys pulling wagons in the streets (Romania lol).

**linux3** · 04-23-2010, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sprout47

They are new, what do you mean by old-style?

The Saiga's are based off of the updates made to the AK through the AKM and AK74. The most notable differences being, 90* gas block instead of the 45* on AK47 and AKM (this reduces fouling related from part of the jacket getting sliced off as the bullet travels down the barrel and clogging up the gas port), they use an AK74 front trunnion and piston and bolt carrier group (this is lighter and thinner/less material than those on previous AK models, which is supposed to reduce recoil momentum leading to more accurate rapid/auto fire and less wear and tear on the receiver). With exception to the gas block, it would be hard to tell the difference between a saiga that has been converted with wooden laminate furniture and a slant brake installed from an AKM and it will more than likely shoot better. The AK in my avatar is my 5.45 Saiga converted to look like a mid 80's AK74.

So you know, it doesn't get much more authentic than a Saiga, they are made in the factory that produced the original production run of AKs, and continue to produce for the Russian Army, and Kalashnikov, and his son, still work at the factory. So rest assured knowing that the creator of the original had some part in the design of your rifle and not some Cold-War diplomatic gesture to a country that still has donkeys pulling wagons in the streets (Romania lol).

Circa 1969 is old style.
I'm not all that concerned about the gas block, I assume improvements are made over the years. Trigger slap being one.
Maybe I need to do more reading up because my main interest is having a shooter that works well, is well made and has wood furniture. That 1969 look.
I didn't think about or frankly know that a modern Saiga could be converted to wood.
But, if I but a new Saiga and then change the furniture do I have a better shooter that this one:
Russian RAK AK47 Rifle Red Classic ON SALE

As for what I want to spend. I'll spend what I have to to get just what I want. And not a penny more. lol

**Sprout47** · 04-23-2010, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by linux3

Circa 1969 is old style.
I'm not all that concerned about the gas block, I assume improvements are made over the years. Trigger slap being one.
Maybe I need to do more reading up because my main interest is having a shooter that works well, is well made and has wood furniture. That 1969 look.
I didn't think about or frankly know that a modern Saiga could be converted to wood.
But, if I but a new Saiga and then change the furniture do I have a better shooter that this one:
Russian RAK AK47 Rifle Red Classic ON SALE

As for what I want to spend. I'll spend what I have to to get just what I want. And not a penny more. lol

Trigger slap is an issue with rebuild kit guns that use American receivers with out the rivet behind the trigger group, that rivet was a fix to eliminate slap and with out it you get slap. It keeps the trigger from flying back too fast and transfering that energy through your finger. There is a rivet there on Saigas but if you use a military based trigger group like the Arsenal FCGs you may or may not get slap, I got slap on my 5.45 but worked it out by reshapping the trigger hooks so that the hammer knocks it back less and more smoothly, if your knowledge of working with these is limited then stick with the TAPCO g2 FCGs as there are already pre-shaped.

You can convert a Saiga for around 500 total if using the repro wood sets that are about 50 bucks. Centerfiresystems has about the best prices for Saiga rifles, 339 or so. Check out Dinzagarms for conversion parts, have have threading kit rentals too to thread your barrel and slap a brake on it. All you need for conversion is a dremel tool and some paint.

**Vergeltung** · 04-23-2010, 06:36 PM

Linux, stick to your guns, and don't settle. I waited, and found a pre-ban Norinco AKM-47S (pic attached, the Norinco is on the right, and my WASR-10 is left). I spent some serious cash for it, maybe too much, but, like you said, it's what will satisfy the need.

I dig sprout alot, he's a great guy, but, perhaps, like you, the Saiga schitt leaves me cold & empty. what can I say. plus, there's no wood. that, for me, is a deal killer.

best of luck with your search. I'm with ya!!

EDIT 2: BTW, and FWIW, it's GREAT to see some AKs getting discussed here. the plastic fantastic schitt gets so old, so fast, it ain't funny. maybe we need a sub forum?

**linux3** · 04-24-2010, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Vergeltung

Linux, stick to your guns, and don't settle. I waited, and found a pre-ban Norinco AKM-47S (pic attached, the Norinco is on the right, and my WASR-10 is left). I spent some serious cash for it, maybe too much, but, like you said, it's what will satisfy the need.

I dig sprout alot, he's a great guy, but, perhaps, like you, the Saiga schitt leaves me cold & empty. what can I say. plus, there's no wood. that, for me, is a deal killer.

best of luck with your search. I'm with ya!!

EDIT 2: BTW, and FWIW, it's GREAT to see some AKs getting discussed here. the plastic fantastic schitt gets so old, so fast, it ain't funny. maybe we need a sub forum?

Could not have said it better myself.
To give Sprout credit where credit is due I thinking maybe one of these:
Saiga 7.62x39 Rifle
Then at his suggestion one of these:
dinzagarms

But I don't know. More thought.
BTW where did you get the Norinco?

**Sprout47** · 04-24-2010, 01:20 AM

linux,

Only reason why I suggest just converting a Saiga over that one that you originally linked, which is a Saiga btw to be clear, is if you look at it it has a 45* gas block installed to give it a more AKM look (which is what that would be since it has a slant brake, though it is dressed up in AK-74 handguards (palm swells) and AK47 butt stock (no groove cut). That gas block could cause issues on that barrel since if it were a stock Saiga barrel then the gas port is drilled at 90* which doesn't correspond 100% with a gas block with a port set for a 45* hole. It will basically be a little half-mooned and can be prone to issues over time.

**Allstar Tactical** · 04-24-2010, 08:24 AM

We should have about 15 more WASR's coming in soon!

**Vergeltung** · 04-24-2010, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by linux3

Could not have said it better myself.
To give Sprout credit where credit is due I thinking maybe one of these:
Saiga 7.62x39 Rifle
Then at his suggestion one of these:
dinzagarms

But I don't know. More thought.
BTW where did you get the Norinco?

my local shop had it in. I think he found it for me on short notice. he could see the desperation in my eyes. heh hhe.

there are many on Gun Broker as well. it is my best firearm by far. BTW, that Dinzag conversion thingy does inded look sweet.

**Sprout47** · 04-24-2010, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Allstar Tactical

We should have about 15 more WASR's coming in soon!

Eww, you guys should get something other than WASR for ak options

like maybe those new EAA Serbian imports?

**Vergeltung** · 04-24-2010, 02:32 PM

WASRs roxxors!!!

**linux3** · 04-25-2010, 10:54 AM

Well, I want what I want and don't want anything less.
I'll just keep hunting for the 'perfect' Old Style AK and when I find it, huzzah.
Keep me in mind for a traditional AK with fine wood furniture. Pre ban, well made.

Thanks for the help figuring out just what I do want.

**Vergeltung** · 04-25-2010, 11:16 AM

anytime, brother man!

**hexidismal** · 04-25-2010, 02:45 PM

@linux3: This store in Albany B & J Shooting Supply American Shooter Supply Online usually has some pre bans for sale. Or they did last time I was there anyway which was several months ago. They are of course way overpriced, but that's the name of the game for shop sold pre bans.

**JSPAG** · 04-28-2010, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Sprout47

Eww, you guys should get something other than WASR for ak options

like maybe those new EAA Serbian imports?

Those look nice, has anyone done any conversions on these? Definetely some of the best built importable AKM's.....

linux3, whatever you do, stay far away from anything built by Lancaster Arms. Alot of reports coming in from the AK communities about shoddy building and business practices. People are reporting some major issues with these recent builds.

**Vergeltung** · 04-28-2010, 10:08 AM

really? Lancaster? that saddens me. seems like a nice outfit.

**JSPAG** · 04-28-2010, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Vergeltung

really? Lancaster? that saddens me. seems like a nice outfit.

10 pages of some of the craziest sh*t i've ever heard! Years ago, Lancaster was a good name. I knew plenty of people that had Lancaster AK's and were extremely pleased with them. I think when they started using these new US barrels is when the problems started to arise. There Rough Rider AK74 is the main culprit. Problems with "out of spec" barrels.....

Apparently Chet Durda the President of Lancaster Consulting, is not well liked.....At all. He's mislead people, told them one thing then did another, and outright lied to others.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=126813

**Vergeltung** · 04-28-2010, 02:11 PM

ahgh, I'm really sad to hear that. I was considering one of their model number 3060's (AKM-47) as a future purchase. that sucks.

thanks for the link & info though.

**linux3** · 04-28-2010, 04:22 PM

Stopped at a local gun shop today. They had a post-ban Norinco wide body. Stamped MAK-90 Sporter. I can see where the threads were ground off and the stock is just wrong. An employee said wide body means it can use staggered mags. He further said that there is no way to replace the stock with the older style pre-ban. Oh well.
The shop also had some Izhmash made Saiga rifles imported by RAA with all plastic. Not what I want.
Thanks for the comment about B & J Shooting Supply but Albany is about 3.5 hours from me. Though it may come to that.
The hunt continues.