Romanian PSL - Is it compliant?
I have been trying to find answers and dig up information related to this topic but I am drawing blanks, so I thought I'd ask here.
Is the Romanian PSL compliant with NY AWB laws? Is the stock considered a pistol grip, or a thumbhole stock? is there a bayonet lug? is that muzzle brake welded on, or detachable? I want to know if it's over the parts limit for an "assault weapon" or if I can order one and have it sent to my dealer no problem?
Thanks.
Most PSL's "out of the box" are not NY compliant. Most of the PSL's I've seen already have the muzzle brake welded, so you should be ok there. Ground off the bayonet lugs and you'll be all set. IIRC, the stock is considered a "thumbhole".
There are a ton of dealers in NY who will take this(and other AK variants) and make them NY compliant. It'll cost a bit more but it's definitely worth it. For example, I just bought an Interarms Polish Tantal and had the folding stock welded, muzzle brake welded and the bayo lugs ground off. It doesn't make the rifle any less badass. Unless you go to sell it to someone who doesn't live behind enemy lines. They tend not to like the idea of a neutered AK.
IMO, if I had the extra money, I'd go with the Yugo M76. They're built like a tank and are far more accurate(8MM). Just stay away from a Tabuk sniper rifle. They look pretty cool but there still chambered in 7.62x39. Good round, but at range distances, ehhh, not so good.....
Last edited by JSPAG; 04-02-2010 at 05:42 PM.
if you want to shoot one before buying it, let me know and we can work something out
I just emailed the company I planned to buy it from and they said all their muzzle brakes are welded on.. so that is taken care of.
Now, wouldn't the bayonet lug count as my only part considering the pistol grip is technically a thumbhole stock, or is that a gray area in terms of the law? Is a thumbhole stock considered an evil baby killing pistol grip?
LGS near me has 2 on the shelf
same place I got mine a few years ago.
i figure if they can sell it, I can buy it. They are not going to put something on the books that they can not dispose of.
YMMV.
I appreciate the help on this subject.. now to decide if I want to try to get it.
MM yes they are compliant, I had one that I sold to a gun shop in Utica, NY when I got my PTR.
The same store is able to order them whenever, K&K Train and Hobby.
Personally I find them to be lacking in the accuracy department, 2.5-3.5 MOA, and the ammo is rather inconsistent unless you plan on dropping the bucks on commercial ammo.
Personally I would get a good .308 battle rifle, FN-FAL/M14/G3/HK91/CETME/PTR and call it a day
You can get Bear ammo in .308 for pretty cheap 6-7 bucks a box and get a more accurate platform.
As far as the laws concerning them go. You have a removable magazine and a flash hider so you can't have any bayo lugs.
I was also considering a Saiga .308 to suit a designated marksman role, but the price of magazines and the accuracy reports i've heard kinda turn me off... Don't get me wrong, I don't want a pure accuracy 1/2 moa at 1000 yards type rifle. I'm content as long as i can bust center mass out to 500 or so.Originally Posted by Sprout47
MM yes they are compliant, I had one that I sold to a gun shop in Utica, NY when I got my PTR.
The same store is able to order them whenever, K&K Train and Hobby.
Personally I find them to be lacking in the accuracy department, 2.5-3.5 MOA, and the ammo is rather inconsistent unless you plan on dropping the bucks on commercial ammo.
Personally I would get a good .308 battle rifle, FN-FAL/M14/G3/HK91/CETME/PTR and call it a day
You can get Bear ammo in .308 for pretty cheap 6-7 bucks a box and get a more accurate platform.
As far as the laws concerning them go. You have a removable magazine and a flash hider so you can't have any bayo lugs.
Last edited by Mittelmorder; 04-03-2010 at 10:53 PM.
I hear ya, I just wasn't impressed at all with the PSL, honestly almost as accurate as a WASR, unless I got a bad one. The one I had would also jam up quite a bit when firing light ball.
The psl mags are also about 30 bucks a pop local, and can be picky, remember that mags were made specific to individual rifles. Also it is kind of hard to get replacement parts for them.
Get one if your heart is set on it. You know how much I love AK's, but I can't stand PSL's (this is GOFO btw MM).
Yeah I need to consider all my options, I ain't got anything in the long range scoped rifle department and it's what i'm trying to fill.I hear ya, I just wasn't impressed at all with the PSL, honestly almost as accurate as a WASR, unless I got a bad one. The one I had would also jam up quite a bit when firing light ball.
The psl mags are also about 30 bucks a pop local, and can be picky, remember that mags were made specific to individual rifles. Also it is kind of hard to get replacement parts for them.
Get one if your heart is set on it. You know how much I love AK's, but I can't stand PSL's (this is GOFO btw MM
If you've got about $3500 consider the Norinco NDM86. They're preban, milled receiver and are exact clones of the real Soviet SVD. IIRC, Norinco also made the EM352 which was esentially a Dragunov chambered in .308!!!!! Rare as hell!!!
While were on the subject, behold......THE SVDS.....I love this gun....Folding stock, shorter barrel......SEXY
Yeah, If i didn't have a budget to shop by i'd get one, lol.If you've got about $3500 consider the Norinco NDM86. They're preban, milled receiver and are exact clones of the real Soviet SVD. IIRC, Norinco also made the EM352 which was esentially a Dragunov chambered in .308!!!!! Rare as hell!!!
While were on the subject, behold......THE SVDS.....I love this gun....Folding stock, shorter barrel......SEXY
No offense but for $3,500 I'll take the the LMT .308 MWS and a decent scope. Or a LaRue OBR ($3k) and save up another $500 so I could get a half-way decent scope for around $1k.
If they were cheaper I would get one
I see that Izhmash still makes the TIGR though, I hope that those will eventually make their way back to American shores. $900 for a civilian SVD sounds like a much better deal
They make those in .308 as well.
$900 sounds more like it to me too. I mean the SVD's are supposed to be pretty accurate. But like you said, I can't see them out shooting a M14 or one of the new AR-10 rifles from LMT or LaRue, or Knight's. I've heard the DPMS versions are pretty accurate as well. I read some reviews on the net about the DPMS rifle. They say its like they are being made in a totally different factory. The difference in quality compared to their AR-15's is pretty noticeable people have said.
Heh, its funny that I don't even consider the AR-10's when thinking of a semi .308 lol
Despite the fact that it is the original caliber the system was designed for I just have some sort of aversion to them. Totally unjustified on my part but I guess with so many good .308 systems already out there it seems like rolling the dice to me to go with a less time tested design (for .308 at least). Heck, I don't even have an AR anymore, though I plan on eventually picking one up again. I sold off my Colt carbine when I was moving back to NY from TX, was a nice little rifle but illegal in big bad NY lol.
The Soviet SVD or the Chicom Type 79 rifles are interesting only from an academic perspective. Both rifles suffer from the same problems associated with their design.
Keep in mind the purpose of any Sniper Weapon System (SWS) is to reduce your target.
On the other hand, if looks could kill the SVD would be the deadliest SWS on the planet.
PSL's, SVD's, or any other make of those flavors are not Sniper Systems, by Western standards and doctrine at least. Can you hit a man at 800m with one, probably, especially if you actually use the POSP correctly lol. Will it achieve Sub MOA performance? Probably not.
PSL's are kind of trashy imo and a poor substitute for a SVD, but I wouldn't go out and buy an SVD at the inflated prices they are at.
If I ever see an NDM, or a TIGR at a reasonable price I probably would jump on it. But other than that, there are better options out there to blow money on
Yeah, aren't they semi automatic? I always thought that bolt action was the way to go for accurate distance shooting. I could be wrong though.
maybe I got one of the lucky ones, but mine is accurate enough.
ymmv.
the world is full of choices. buy what you ultimately like, after all, it is YOUR money.
take all the opinions, and do with them what you want.
for everyone who dislikes one gun, I can find someone who conversely likes it.
if you know someone who has one, ask to shoot it before spending your hard earned money on it and deciding you do not like it.
good luck in your search
There is a difference between accurate enough and a 'sniper system' though. The one I owned, a TN Guns FPK-Para, was a 2-3 MOA rifle and inconsistent. I ultimately ditched it for that reason for 1 MOA or better large caliber semi-auto.
It is ultimately up to personal decision, but one should be aware of what it is and what it isn't. With companies selling them as 'Dragunovs' or 'Sniper Rifles' there is a lot of misinformation out there. I even saw one site state that these are one of the world's most accurate sniper rifles. That is far from the truth.
To answer the question above, yes, typically semi-automatic sniper rifles are not as accurate as bolt rifles at long distances. It all depends though on the operation of the rifle. The PSG-1/MSG90 are considered one of the most accurate semi-auto sniper/DM rifles in the world. The G3 series, which the PSG/MSG are based off of, don't use the escaping gas to eject the bullet however so there is no, or at least lesser, bleed-off of the gases pushing the bullet out the bore. Even still, gas systems have very little effect if any on muzzle velocities and accuracy is more effected by the moving parts during operation. Again the MSG/PSG's have a roller-locked, delayed-blowback system have less moving parts and relying on inertia rather than gases (though sort of the same but doesn't require any bleed via a gas port/tube). Here is some info about that type of operation, it is sort of confusing and all about physics and crap like that
Technical Engineering Detail of the G3
i typically only shoot reactive targets, so accurate enough is all I really care about.
and not too many of us have that kind of range to shoot at. I know that I gave up at 500 yards. although I have up to 1000 to take advantage of.
most people here wont shoot past 100 yards anyways, and in a SHTF situation, you are not grabbing the PSL anyways. That thing is a bear to carry.
personally, there are way too many other 7.62x firearms that are dead balls accurate, that I can do a lot more with.
although a ptr-91 in the right configuration, well....i ain't dragging it out for chucks, but it is 750 yard zeroed.
** IMAGE REMOVED **
but the psl draws a whole lot of looks.....
Last edited by rjhauser; 04-05-2010 at 09:29 PM.
Was that a shot across my bow? Thought you said you did 'drag it out for chucks'...
I hear this SHTF stuff all the time and it seems a bit of a catch 22. If you don't plan on using the weapon in post-SHTF then why bother getting the rifle with SHTF in mind?
That makes not one iota of sense to me.
I am also not sure where this 100yd figure becomes the standard post-SHTF engagement range either? Or why SHTF always equates a Red Dawn scenario but that is neither here nor there. Personally I would rather be proficient at all ranges and use my maximum stand-off rather than waiting for someone to get 100 yards from me, which also assumes that you are going to remain undetected while someone gets that close to you.
A trained monkey can learn to set up a defensive position and make a fancy little range card showing sectors of fire, with kill zones set-up with known ranges. The great thing about defense is you have time to prepare and you can dial in your rifles for those various kill zones with your turret corrections and all that good stuff. Heck you can even tie little pieces of fabric out there so you can even tell what the wind is by your target.
Good point about the weight, though I would suggest that most people wouldn't be able to carry a CAR-15 much past 8 hours without their pussies starting to hurt. A rifle/accessories weighing 20lbs. versus a slimmed down AR weighing 7 lbs. won't make much of a difference if the person hauling it is not used to carrying a 50 lb. pack plus their rifle. It is surprising how heavy a rifle gets after a while.
I know I hated carrying this thing from hell (203's are great and fun, but not so much when it is in your arms all day long lol)
I think that is about enough of a rant for one night... Though seriously, what the heck is 'accurate enough'? Not to be an ass but I think it accuracy does depend on group size and range, maybe a 6" group at 100 is accurate enough, so long as I don't plan on shooting at 300 and have now an 18" which is very possibly a missed shot.
first, no, no shot across the bow. my gun is NOt laid out for wood chucking. I have never said I would drag it out for chucks. personally, I use nothing really larger than a 6.8 for chucks....although I prefer 22-250
mine has a quad rail on it, along with the bipod, and extended stock (ny compliant, of course), it is laid out for target. and also weights more than 8 pounds.
and for me, shooter marble at 250 yards is usually accurate enough. although paint balls, etc are good too. easy to see when you hit them
it is all subjective
personally, there are many other accurate options. but this one looks to be the most evil.
Too true, weight is almost never factored into the equation.Good point about the weight, though I would suggest that most people wouldn't be able to carry a CAR-15 much past 8 hours without their pussies starting to hurt. A rifle/accessories weighing 20lbs. versus a slimmed down AR weighing 7 lbs. won't make much of a difference if the person hauling it is not used to carrying a 50 lb. pack plus their rifle. It is surprising how heavy a rifle gets after a while.
I know I hated carrying this thing from hell (203's are great and fun, but not so much when it is in your arms all day long lol)
Me personally, I'd have to say carrying the javelin about 5 miles kicked the sh*t out of me.
The reason 5.56x45 is still the US standard is because a soldier can carry more of it into the fight. The more ammo brought to the fight, the better. Fire superiority!!!!
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