DEC/ECO authority...rumor, truth or combination?

[Doc8404]

For years I have heard statements such as "ECO's in NYS have more authority than the NYSP. They don't need a warrant to enter your home...."

the other day I was sitting with a well-respected friend and a group of us were talking. He was telling us that he attended a SMA/LEO function and that topic came up and swears it is true.

Is it? Can they just enter your home? Assuming they "must have probable cause" at least?
Is that more than other LEO's need?

Just figured someone here would know more off the top of their head than a few hours or days of law reading.

[Jeff]

I've heard the same thing several times. I can't believe it's true though. At least I can't believe they could legally enter without a warrant when another type of LEO couldn't.

[Evild]

I think we have all heard this, we covered it when I wasted two years of my life getting a criminal justice degree but that was the 80's and i don't' remember the specifics.

[dsdmmat]

"For years I have heard statements such as "ECO's in NYS have more authority than the NYSP. They don't need a warrant to enter your home...."



I believe the U.S. Constitution trumps all the idiots that think they are above the law in NYS, if not I am positive a 12 Gauge does.

[Foxtrapper]

As far as I know, they still need a warrent to enter your home...they can however, enforce all the laws of NYS. Most LEO's can only enfore the laws that don't deal with wildlife..they can detain you, but would have to have a DEC LEO come and write the ticket, or take you into custodey...

[Darthgamer138]

I believe the U.S. Constitution trumps all the idiots that think they are above the law in NYS,

Luckily you said NYS and not NYC, because well, does more even need to be said?

[Cossey]

I think one of the reason people think the DEC is more powerful than NYSP is because the DEC can make it's own laws (ex. hunting w/ a 5rd mag vs. the NY limit of 10rd).

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I don't think they can enter your home without a warrant but can enter other buildings on the property such as barns.

[hermannr]

The 4th Ammendment to the US Constitution and NY State Constitution Article 1 Section 12 so, "nope, no LE can" They enter your house without a warrent, they should get sued for violating your civil rights according to the above and the 14th ammendment to the US constitution.

[hermannr]

I don't think they can enter your home without a warrant but can enter other buildings on the property such as barns.

They cannot legally come onto your property unless they have a warrent or you allow them to.

[nessman]

Well, any police officer can enforce any law in New York. What's likely happening here is a local/county/trooper is calling in an EnCon officer since they're more knowledgeable in the area of environmental conservation (pick up a copy of the latest NY Freshwater Fishing Regulations from wherever you get a fishing license from and you'll see it's full of stuff that your average beat cop won't be a subject matter expert in). ... just like an EnCon officer will call the local PD if they're dealing with a petit larceny at the local convenience store. When you got all of 5 EnCon officers in Onondaga County - they're not going to get involved in local PD matters given the immense size of their patrol area - just like the local's aren't going to go out on the lake and enforce a myriad of complex fishing regulations.

But whether it be a local/county/trooper or an EnCon officer - they're all police officers per NY CPL section 1.20 sub 34, and none have more power/authority (as far as the state is concerned) than the other, and they're all bound by the US Consitution. Most will respect the lines drawn in the sand over the years that define specific duties, jurisdiction, and other "turf" matters borne out practice over the years, union agreements, etc.

Sure, the State Police, county PD's/Sheriff Offices, etc... have specialized patrol units that you'll find in places you least expect them - but they're all out there doing the same job regardless of what their badge says.

[SRV1]

I believe they can come on your property but not in your home. Also I think they are allowed to enter structures like garages and sheds. They do have environmental law which the regular troopers do not. DEC has been know to be on people's property checking for illegal hunting and I believe it is legal.

James

[Jeremy]

I can find out for sure. My friends dad is a DEC investigator. I'll ask him about it.

[11B]

I heard the same as well. While ny tries to strip or limit your freedoms with "nanny" laws, it would be a cold day in hell I would let any LEO to enter without a warrant.

While NY likes to have full control we still have the constitution and bill of rights ..

[Cavalry]

It is my understanding that they can walk your property but cannot enter your home.

They certainly take it upon themselves to search your vehicle/boat whenever they feel the need.

Some interesting reading

State Bill Would Rein in DEC Search Powers - Westhampton-Hampton Bays, NY Patch

[Firefly Firearms]

I work for a PD and I will give you the information I have gained in my years of working with DEC, local and state police. No police agency can enter your home without a warrant. Now I know that the DEC have more police power than the state police due to environmental laws, they do not need probable cause for vehicle searches, they utilize environmental laws to circumvent the traditional police requirements, I will not say how I know this but I have heard of it being used. Mostly for drug activity. The SUNY police also have jurisdiction outside the campuses in the state, after 911 they were folded into the NYSP operational structure.

[IDF]

good thing i don't keep pet alligators anymore

[rochram_1968]

So I can not "Plink" some woodchucks on some farmers land with his permission with my 9mm?? ( 10 rd mag)

[THE RAVEN]

I have heard this all my life as well.......Reason being the DEC officers were clamping down on deer poachers,but by the time the un-sub was approached by the law with the proper paperwork the poachers dumped thier stash......Supposedly that is why they can walk in un-announced and check the freezers and such for illegal game....IDK for sure,just what I was told by multiple sources......Bottom line ?? Keep your nose clean and you won't have to worry if it's true or not.....

[Cavalry]

Supposedly that is why they can walk in un-announced and check the freezers and such for illegal game

That makes no sense. Frozen meat is not tagged. It could be from last season, a gift from another, farm raised etc

[THE RAVEN]

That makes no sense. Frozen meat is not tagged. It could be from last season, a gift from another, farm raised etc

"Illegal".....Probably won't have a tag on it......I was told they can probe and tell how old the meat is roughly....IDK....

[Cavalry]

So I can not "Plink" some woodchucks on some farmers land with his permission with my 9mm?? ( 10 rd mag)

Woodchucks are not a protected species. Take as many as you want when you want. The only requirement is a small game license if you take them with a firearm and of course general rules applied to hunting.

[nessman]

I work for a PD and I will give you the information I have gained in my years of working with DEC, local and state police. No police agency can enter your home without a warrant. Now I know that the DEC have more police power than the state police due to environmental laws, they do not need probable cause for vehicle searches, they utilize environmental laws to circumvent the traditional police requirements, I will not say how I know this but I have heard of it being used. Mostly for drug activity. The SUNY police also have jurisdiction outside the campuses in the state, after 911 they were folded into the NYSP operational structure.

I'm calling Bravo Sierra on this. I can't believe the misinformation that's out there.

I'll reiterate what I said last night - NO POLICE OFFICER UNDER NY CPL SECTION 1.20 SUB 34 HAS ANY MORE POWER THAN THE OTHER. Whether it's village, town, city, county, state, SUNY, EnCon, etc... THEY ALL HAVE THE SAME POWERS AND AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE ALL OF THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK REGARDLESS OF WHAT AGENCY THEY WORK FOR. So yes, a SUNY police officer can enforce Environmental Conservation Law, just like an EnCon Officer can make an arrest for an assault on a SUNY campus. As a matter of practicality, and deferring the matter to another agency who's officers are subject matter experts is why EnCon officers enforce EnCon laws due to the specialization and complexities of such matters. If you want a successful prosecution, you bring in the officers who are familiar with the law that was violated. There's a reason why a PD's homicide detective will take over a case of a murdered person - and not put it on the shoulders of the beat cop who got the initial radio call... same thing applies to sex crimes, robberies, computer crimes, etc... etc. As such, if you get a ticket for fishing without a license, the ticket is prosecuted in the local town court where the offense took place (I know this because I got one ice fishing in January and not renewing my license).

SUNY Police were originally Peace Officers, and some years ago their designation was moved from CPL 2.10 to CPL 1.20 in order to remove the issue of not being able to do their job outside of the campus boundaries in spite of the fact they received the same police academy training as any police officer would. Had nothing to do with 9/11, nor are they considered State Troopers. SUNY Police departments are decentralized and separate from one another (there's no "command structure" in Albany), and officers report to their respective campuses, who's chiefs report to the each college's president.

[Doc8404]

awesome conversation....some day we will get the actual story and LAW.

I'd ask the ECO at a get together i'm going to, but considering the rest are NYSP, I don't need hours of "i can piss further" and "my dick is bigger than yours" conversation.

I know we have the constitution, but do you really think any/many will stop at your door and say, "you're right, my apologies, let me get that warrant....."

[BustedHorns375]

I know we have the constitution, but do you really think any/many will stop at your door and say, "you're right, my apologies, let me get that warrant....."

Actually everyone I have ever encountered knows exactly what they need to execute a search. My nieghbors are; one county sherrif deputy; a chief investigator for NYS police; and an DEC officer......talk about surrounded. LOL

Read 4 a,b,c here; (this is for DEC)
Laws of New York

4. Officers named in subdivision 1 shall have power:
a. To execute all warrants and search warrants issued for violation of
the Fish and Wildlife Law and to serve subpoenas issued for examination,
investigation or trial of offenses against any of its provisions;
b. To search without search warrant any boat or vehicle of any kind,
any box, locker, basket, creel, crate, game bag, package or any
container of any nature and the contents of any building other than a
dwelling whenever they have cause to believe that any provision of this
article or of any law for the protection of fish, shellfish, crustacea,
wildlife, game or protected insects has been or is being violated, and
to use such force as may be necessary for the purpose of examination and
search;
c. To search any dwelling and its contents, provided they have a
search warrant to do so;