Can someone (With a NY pistol permit) shoot my guns?>

**Acouguitar** · 11-03-2010, 04:58 PM

Hello Everyone-
I was told that NO one can shoot my pistol on the range or anywhere else without my gun being listed on there permit! Is this true? I have a friend I want to take to the range who has a NY pistol permit but does not have a firearm at this time. Will they be able to legally fire my guns?
I DO have a NY pistol permit.

Thank you all so much!!

PS: My nephew also just received a letter from the Broome County Sheriff with his new NY Pistol Permit saying NO ONE is permitted to fire your pistol unless it is listed on his/her permit.

I posted this in another forum and got a few different answers. One person posted the law saying it was fine, another said they called the sheriffs office and they also said it was ok. Maybe this is a county thing??

Can anyone shed some more light on this subject?

Thanks~~~~~

**Tim1** · 11-03-2010, 05:25 PM

Yeah, I got the same insert with my Broome County pistol license. They are misinformed. Penal Law 265.20 lists the exemptions from the charge of criminal possession of a weapon:

§ 265.20 Exemptions.

a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:

...

3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section 265.01 of this article.

...

7-a. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading and firing the same, by a person duly licensed to possess a pistol or revolver pursuant to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter of a pistol or revolver duly so licensed to another person who is present at the time.

I cut a lot of that law out because it's really long but the first exemption I listed covers those of us with pistol licenses. The second one says if you have a permit you can fire a legally registered handgun belonging to someone else provided that they are present and you are at the range.

Keep in mind you need to be at the range with the other person to keep it legal. If you borrow their handgun and take it to the range by yourself you have broken the law. If you borrow their handgun and go shooting in the woods behind their house you have broken the law. It needs to occur at the range with both of you present.

**Tim1** · 11-03-2010, 05:38 PM

BTW, I moved your thread to the "laws and politics" section. More on topic for that section than the "carry/conceal" part of our forum

**Grimscale** · 11-04-2010, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by javerial

Keep in mind you need to be at the range with the other person to keep it legal. If you borrow their handgun and take it to the range by yourself you have broken the law. If you borrow their handgun and go shooting in the woods behind their house you have broken the law. It needs to occur at the range with both of you present.

I'll never understand this.
If both of you have NYS permits, and the pistol is legally registered to one of you, why should it matter if it were on private property or not?
It's like saying "yes, we'll let you have a gun, but we don't really trust that you know how to use it".
As long as the pistol's owner is present, you should be able to shoot it.

**Tim1** · 11-04-2010, 09:19 AM

Grim,

I don't understand the reason behind the law either but that's what it says. You have to be at the range to qualify for this exemption.

**Jeff** · 11-04-2010, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by javerial

I don't understand the reason behind the law either but that's what it says. You have to be at the range to qualify for this exemption.

I understand it perfectly. Back door gun control.

**beltfeed** · 11-04-2010, 07:17 PM

Heck my neighbors must not no the laws ?? When I came home from work the other day the 15 year old kid and five of his junior high buddies were in their backyard pounding rounds off with what sounded like a .357 revolver for an hour ( probably his dads revolver). All the kids got to have a whirl at shooting it. This family is a nut house and just one more stupid event in there un-monitored lives. I have always figured somebody will die at that house from stupidness.

**RochPersDef** · 11-05-2010, 08:28 AM

Great. There's a gun accident waiting to happen. Maybe someone should do something about it before someone gets hurt or worse? Don't be a bystander and then later on, after something happens, think that you should have done something........

Another reason to make sure your firearms are secured from unauthorized people......

**Bill** · 11-05-2010, 08:39 AM

Sure it was a handgun? My friends and I shot a lot of ammo growing up just having good clean fun.
A lot of firearms sound like handguns.

**Tim1** · 11-05-2010, 09:17 AM

Acouguitar,

Would you mind scanning the letter your nephew got from the Sheriff and sending it my way? I couldn't find my copy of it. I'm debating calling them up and asking them if they have that in there because they think it's the law or if it's some administrative restriction that Judge Cawley asked for.

My hunch is that they are misinformed on the law because I can't think of any reason why Cawley would want to impose such a limitation. If they are simply misinformed I'm tempted to head down there with my black book of NYS firearms laws and point out the exemption for shooting handguns at the range. No real reason to discourge people from engaging in a perfectly legal activity.

**RochPersDef** · 11-05-2010, 09:45 AM

I can handle that. No need to go marching in to the office and toss the book on the table to force the issue. Deputy Curtis is a good Guy and ill give him a call

**Tim1** · 11-05-2010, 09:49 AM

I was going to be a little bit more subtle than tossing the book on the table Dave

Figured I'd bring it up the next time I head down there for an amendment.

Let me know what he says. My hunch is it's just old paperwork that they haven't gotten around to updating.

**av8r** · 11-05-2010, 09:58 AM

Last time I asked them about this they told me they were correct in listing this. When I suggested they review the statute I was told they knew what they were talking about. I was very polite, but got the feeling that this wasn't an issue they wanted to review.

good luck

**Acouguitar** · 11-05-2010, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by javerial

Acouguitar,

Would you mind scanning the letter your nephew got from the Sheriff and sending it my way? I couldn't find my copy of it. I'm debating calling them up and asking them if they have that in there because they think it's the law or if it's some administrative restriction that Judge Cawley asked for.

My hunch is that they are misinformed on the law because I can't think of any reason why Cawley would want to impose such a limitation. If they are simply misinformed I'm tempted to head down there with my black book of NYS firearms laws and point out the exemption for shooting handguns at the range. No real reason to discourge people from engaging in a perfectly legal activity.

Sure, I need to get it from my nephew and I'll send it your way ASAP!

**Acouguitar** · 11-06-2010, 07:30 PM

Here's a copy of the letter from BC Sheriff

**Bob** · 11-06-2010, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by RochPersDef

I can handle that. No need to go marching in to the office and toss the book on the table to force the issue. Deputy Curtis is a good Guy and ill give him a call

It may be worthwhile discussing item #6 with him as well. It's really not necessary to ship your handgun to a dealer in your destination state and arrange for pickup. It's perfectly legal to ship directly to yourself at your destination.

**dcruthis** · 11-06-2010, 07:53 PM

at the risk of repeating myself, and again being slapped on the wrist by our moderators, law enforcement officers might not be the best place to get your legal advice.

my suggestion:
read the statutes yourself. ask an attorney to interpret them if you have questions.

now that i have that outta the way, my opinion is that the letter is inaccurate. i would simply ignore it, and go around thinking that i know better.

yes, i know i'm ignoring my own advice.

-D

**ladder13** · 11-06-2010, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Acouguitar

Here's a copy of the letter from BC Sheriff

#8 ???? My dealer regularly accepts firearms from out of state with only a DL as ID.

Never mind, I misread it. Shipping in requires going thru an FFL.

**Tim1** · 11-06-2010, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by hxd

It may be worthwhile discussing item #6 with him as well. It's really not necessary to ship your handgun to a dealer in your destination state and arrange for pickup. It's perfectly legal to ship directly to yourself at your destination.

#6 is confusing as hell. Am I the only one that reads it as saying I can't even take my pistols into PA without having them shipped via an FFL? What Federal law says I have to have my handguns shipped when I cross state lines as opposed to taking them there myself?

**rjhauser** · 11-06-2010, 09:46 PM

#6 does not make sense. I am definitely NOT shipping a gun when I drive 3 hours to get to PA. I thought that is what my PA CCW was for....

Originally Posted by javerial

#6 is confusing as hell. Am I the only one that reads it as saying I can't even take my pistols into PA without having them shipped via an FFL? What Federal law says I have to have my handguns shipped when I cross state lines as opposed to taking them there myself?

**Bill** · 11-07-2010, 07:59 AM

burn it in the wood stove it's all BS

**Jeff** · 11-07-2010, 12:16 PM

I like how it says "facts about NYS permits" at the top. That makes me think whoever wrote that thinks that stuff is all law and not just an admin restriction.

**Baby Kaboomer** · 01-04-2011, 09:53 AM

Someone needs to take a big broom and sweep away the mental cobwebs of the idiots in charge of this county.

4. "For your own safety, do not take a pistol (s) into public buildings, taverns, restaurants or to parties."

And that's a "fact", Jack!

Thanks, big brother, for thinking of my safety.

**Baby Kaboomer** · 01-04-2011, 10:06 AM

By the way, it's no small matter for an "official" government document to be so woefully ignorant of the English language. It's important because when I read such things it strikes me as if an entry level clerk is just making up this stuff as he goes along. Ask a lawyer. Words are important, they are powerful. They should be shot from your pen with the same care you aim a bullet. It is inexcusable for a document like this one not to have been proofread and corrected.

6. "When taken your pistols to another state..."

Taking, taking TAKING!!!

**Baby Kaboomer** · 01-04-2011, 10:27 AM

Also, for the OP (and please, someone correct me if this is wrong), can't someone under the age of 21 fire your pistol at a range while in your presence, and without a permit as well?

How sadly ironic that my 90 year old father-in-law (no permit), who was a marksman while giving four years of his life to his country in combat in WWII (and who can still completely strip and reassemble a Colt .45 like a jackrabbit), is forbidden by NY law from plinking cans with a .22 pistol with his son-in-law.

We can all sleep a little safer tonight with laws like this protecting us.