200 rounds in an LCP

[av8r]

Shot the LCP today. 200 rounds of Remington ball ammo. Zero malfunctions and this thing is absolutely dead on at 10 meters. I destroyed a bowling pin in no time. It was a bit snappy at first, but I just worked on my grip and it sweetened right out. Very nice little piece. I'm impressed at how well it shoots. Go right out and get you one today!

[Big_John]

I really like mine too. I've put about 400 rounds through it so far with zero problems.

The last couple times out, I've been shooting with one hand, both left and right, figuring that is how I might have to use it in a defense situation. There's just a touch more bite to the recoil when its in one hand.

[Suby]

thanks for the feedback on the LCP been looking at getting one myself, whats a decent price for a new one?

[gandalf]

This for the info here. I'm looking at purchasing my first pistol and I am thinking this might be a good choice. I want something that can handle the range and also be decent choice for defense. I was thinking about a Baretta 22, but I realize that might not give me the defense I need. Is the ammo for the LCP expensive?

[Big_John]

$300 seems to be the going price. I've seen them for less on Gun Broker, but once you ship and add the FFL charges, you are over $300 pretty fast. I bought mine from http://www.hunterarms.net/ .

Ammo runs a little more money then a lot of handgun ammo and its a little harder to find at times.

Some good info on the LCP can be found on http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php?action=forum

[Suby]

Originally Posted by gandalf

This for the info here. I'm looking at purchasing my first pistol and I am thinking this might be a good choice. I want something that can handle the range and also be decent choice for defense. I was thinking about a Baretta 22, but I realize that might not give me the defense I need. Is the ammo for the LCP expensive?

If you want to go to the range a lot I would suggest getting something other than a .380 especially in a gun that small. First of all I have heard heard that the lcp and have experienced other small guns like that are not comfortable to shoot for a period of time, also the ammo is pretty expensive and can be hard to come by.

I would suggest looking at a 9mm sub compact size gun(cheaper to shoot more enjoyable) and not a pocket gun just my 2 cents.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by Suby

thanks for the feedback on the LCP been looking at getting one myself, whats a decent price for a new one?

I paid $275. I've been told there has been a price increase. Prior to the increase the cheapest I could find online was $280-$300 before shipping and fees. Locally $325 was about the standard price with a few places offering $295...before the increase.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by gandalf

This for the info here. I'm looking at purchasing my first pistol and I am thinking this might be a good choice. I want something that can handle the range and also be decent choice for defense. I was thinking about a Baretta 22, but I realize that might not give me the defense I need. Is the ammo for the LCP expensive?

a .22 is not a bad carry piece if you put the right ammo in it. Something like the 1640 FPS Winchester Xpeditier ammo would put a serious hurting on anyone or anything that it was delivered to.

http://www.winchester.com/PRODUCTS/r.../S22LRUHV.aspx

[XLCAPT]

Originally Posted by Big_John

$300 seems to be the going price. I've seen them for less on Gun Broker, but once you ship and add the FFL charges, you are over $300 pretty fast. I bought mine from http://www.hunterarms.net/ .

+1 on hunterarms. I am happy with my LCP.
Still have and used to carry the Beretta .22. The LCP is, for the most part, smaller and weighs less than the bobcat.
The bobcat IMHO is more accurate, but I will keep my LCP.

[RochPersDef]

I would not advise anyone to carry a .22 for defense. Although something is better than nothing, the .22 is pretty darn close to nothing.

Look for a 9mm or .38 as a minimum. Attend some defensive theory classes as well and you'll get a better understanding of the concealed carry world. Smaller does not always mean better.

[gandalf]

I agree about the 22 Dave. I am also planning to get a Glock for more serious carry. And I'm planning to attend a basic pistol class sometime in the near future. I am trying to get my ducks in a row for the upcoming gun show in ROC. I hear prices are pretty good there. Now that I have my permit (after a fairly short for NY 5 month wait), it is fun getting into shopping mode. But I have a bit of a learning curve to overcome. If I can, I would like to come by the GCL on Tuesday evening (tomorrow) to try a few pistols.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by RochPersDef

I would not advise anyone to carry a .22 for defense. Although something is better than nothing, the .22 is pretty darn close to nothing.

Look for a 9mm or .38 as a minimum. Attend some defensive theory classes as well and you'll get a better understanding of the concealed carry world. Smaller does not always mean better.

I'd respectfully disagree with that general statement, Dave. There's plenty of data out there that supports the idea of carrying a .22 with high or hyper velocity defensive ammunition.

Check the ballistics table from a .22 and then a popular .380 defensive round.

.22 LR Hyper Vel. (Ag) 30 HP 1575 1294 185 112
That's 30gr hollow point, 1575 FPS at the muzzle and 1294 at 100 yards. 185lbs ft of energy at the muzzle and 112 at 100 yards. There are newer .22 rounds that travel nearly 1700 FPS.

Here's a Speer Gold Dot personal protection .380

Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle 990fps 50 yards 907 fps 100 yards 842 fps
Energy Muzzle 196 lbs ft 50 yards `64 lbs ft 100 yards 142 lbs ft

9mm
Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle 1150fps 50 yards 1039fps 100 yards 963fps
Energy Muzzle 364 50 yards 297 100 yards 255

.45

Velocity(in feet per second) Energy (in foot pounds)
Muzzle 890fps 50 yards 845fps 100 yards 805 fps
Energy Muzzle 404 50 yards 365 100 yards 331

Ammunition and Ballistics at mouseguns.com has a lot of interesting, detailed data regarding small caliber hand guns and their effectiveness.

Here's a little snippet from one of his articles:
In November 1992, South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates shot an attacker four times in the torso with his 4 inch Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver. His attacker, an obese adult male who weighed almost 300 pounds, absorbed the hits and shortly thereafter returned fire with one shot from a single-action North American Arms .22 caliber mini-revolver. Coates was fatally wounded when the tiny bullet perforated his left upper arm and penetrated his chest through the armhole of his vest where the bullet cut a major artery. Coates, who was standing next to the passenger-side front fender of the assailant's car when he was hit by the fatal bullet, was very quickly incapacitated.
The slaying was recorded by the video camera mounted in Coates' cruiser. For our law enforcement readers, a copy of the video was obtained by Calibre Press a few months after the shooting, and is shown at their Street Survival seminar. Frames from the video are published on page 238 of the Calibre Press book, Tactics for Criminal Patrol. (The Coates shooting is also presented in detail on pages 239-240.)
After Coates was hit, he immediately ran several feet, scrambling around the front of the assailant's car while simultaneously radioing dispatch that he'd been shot. As he neared the driver's-side front fender he suddenly collapsed onto the pavement.
Trooper Coates fired four 145 grain Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum bullets directly into his assailant's heavy abdomen, achieving solid hits with each. These particular bullets penetrate deeper than 125 grain JHPs, however none ruptured any vital cardiovascular structures. During the initial ground struggle, Coates was shot twice, but his vest protected him. After fighting off his attacker, Coates quickly climbed to his feet and emptied his revolver. At that particular moment the assailant was still lying on the ground. The combination of the assailant's obesity and the unusual angle at which the bullets entered his body worked to the disadvantage of Trooper Coates.
The Coates shooting exemplifies the fable of energy transfer, especially when encountering a determined attacker. The .357 Magnum cartridge is regarded by many as the ultimate manstopper; a true one-shot stop wonder. The Winchester 145 grain .357 Magnum cartridge is given a one-shot stopping power rating of 86 percent by Marshall and Sanow. According to this rating system, a single hit ANYWHERE in the torso is supposed to be highly effective in stopping an attacker, regardless of whether or not the bullet destroys vital tissue. But on this night, it failed FOUR TIMES! The assailant easily absorbed four bullets in his body, each delivering over 450 foot pounds of kinetic energy. This is equivalent to being hit four times by a baseball going approximately 210 miles per hour.
None of Coates' powerful .357 Magnum bullets were effective, but the bad guy's weak .22 caliber bullet was. The .357 Magnum bullets dumped all their energy into the attacker, whereas the single .22 caliber bullet disrupted vital tissue. The assailant survived the shooting, was convicted of murdering Coates and was sentenced to life in prison.

Point is...are there better rounds than a .22? Of course. Silly question with a equally silly answer, but...a well placed .22 defensive round can be very effective. The .22's small size can also be leveraged to the trained shooter's advantage (there's that training word again...huh).

[GreytSilly]

I am going to side with Dave wholeheartedly on the no .22 for defensive carry. I run a steel plate shoot at our range every week for .22 pistol and I have occasion to watch 1700-1800 rounds go downrange each week. It is incredible how many malfunctions a .22 has. These misfires are quite common in all brands and models of guns, from inexpensive Smith 22A's to Rugers, Buckmarks, even Smith 41's hiccup at times. Fail to feed and fail to eject are also very common. I bet I will see a couple dozen malfunctions of one sort or another every week. First thing I want in a defensive weapon is for it to go bang and cycle properly EVERY time I pull the trigger. IMHO, without even considering the ballistics factor, I would never carry or recommend a .22 as a defensive carry weapon as their function is just not reliable enough.

[RochPersDef]

From the ballistics and wounding experts I have worked with, anything less than a .38 or 9mm will not generate enough of a permanent wound/stretch cavity to incapacitate an attacker. You need to get over the 400 ft/lb barrier to do that. The .22 at 185 (muzzle) is not going to do it.

I did say that something is better than nothing and I would bet that no one would want to be shot at by either a .22 or a 45, but the point is that if you have the choice, carry the biggest thing you can conceal and shoot. This is your life we are talking about, not a game. There are no 'do-overs' or gimmes if the round does not do what it is intended.

And yes, a .22 is bad enough. We just had an officer get shot in the head from behind, from about 150 yds. The bullet entered his head, bounced around and finally stopped. he is still alive due to the heroism of Dr. Paul Maurer. I can also list stories of people shot with .45's int he chest and they survived. (No, they did not get blown across the room when they got hit either, LOL)

And let's add in the Mossad who used suppressed .22's for their wet work. BUT they did it within 3 feet.

When it all comes down to it, caliber, gun, and bullet design don't mean as much as shot placement - that's the key: where they get hit.

So like I said, .22's can do something, but if I had to bet my life on a bullet, I'm getting something a bit bigger.....

And yes, I have seen more 22's, 32's, etc. fail a whole lot more often then their larger, more efficient cousins....