Don't Buy Special Gun Cleaners

[tinker]

Originally Posted by brainglitch

Void the warranty? What? Are you on crack son?

Originally Posted by av8r

Please provide us with your source of this statement. In 30+ years of owning guns I have yet to see anything from any manufacturer stating anything like this.

Read you're ownersmanual or call customer service. Most of my manuals state "use only chemicals designed for use on firearms on you firearm." I have talked with people that spend their day designing guns and building prototypes for manufacturers. I'm going to listen to him.
The chances of the manufacturer knowing damage was caused by improper lube might be small, it would depend on what the damage was. My luck, it would cause the gun to melt.

As I said, thats my take on the lube subject. It's everyones choice what they use. If I think about all the cash I spend on guns, ammo, and training, the money I would save buying brake cleaner is less than a drop in the bucket. More like a drop in the ocean. And now that Allstar Tactics is getting in truckloads of goodies, I'll be spending even more on this hobbie.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by tinker

Read you're ownersmanual or call customer service. Most of my manuals state "use only chemicals designed for use on firearms on you firearm."

OK...lets take this into the realm of science fact just so that we understand there are facts here and not just conjecture or opinion.

Here are the chemical compositions of some current firearms cleaning fluids:

Hoppes #9
Ethyl Alcohol 64-17-5 <35.0 No No No 1000 ppm 1000 ppm
Kerosene 8008-20-6 <35.0 No No No Not Determined
Trade Secret Ingredient(s) Trade Secret <25.0 No No No Not Determined
Organic Ester Trade Secret <10.0 No No No 100 ppm 100 ppm
Ammonia, aqueous 7664-41-7 <10.0 No No No 25 ppm 50 ppm

Shooter's Choice #7
AROMATIC NAPHTHA, 20 ‐ 25 Solvent naphtha, petroleum, heavy aroma
AROMATIC NAPHTHA, 10 ‐15 Petroleum‐ Naphtha, light aromat
1,2,4‐TRIMETHYLBENZENE 5 – 10 PSEUDO CUMEME
ETHYLENE GLYCOL 5 – 10 2‐Butoxyethanol
MONOBUTYL ETHER

METHYL AMYL ALCOHOL 5 – 10 Methylisobutyl carbinol

NAPHTHALENE 1 – 5 Naphthalene


Birchwood Bore Scrubber:
Trichloroethylene 79-01-6 <97 100 ppm

Brake Kleen Non Chlorinated:
Heptane (petroleum distillate found in gasoline)

So....lighter fluid, kerosene, ammonia, heptane,etc...mostly petroleum distillates.

Point is....none of these cleaning fluids have chemicals that were specifically designed for cleaning firearms. They contain chemicals that are industrial solvents. Many of them, like Ammonia (the main ingredient in many popular bore solvents) are much more corrosive and potentially damaging to metal and plastic than non chlorinated brake cleaners. Everyone used to sell aerosol cans of 1, 1, 1 or TriCHlor (dry cleaning fluid) and everyone I know used to use the stuff by the case. At Camp Perry you would see cans of the stuff everywhere as you could shoot a 45 dirty (tight bore) yet keep the internals clean by just spraying the gun down every 50 rounds or so.

So use what works for you, but do not assume that just because some marketing type did not put the words "gun cleaner" on it that it is not as effective or more effective than stuff that is labeled as such.

All the vendors have to put out a MSDS sheet on all these fluids so look them up. BTW, if you are not using nitrile gloves when cleaning with these solvents you really should be. Many are listed as class A, B or C carcinogens and should be handled as such.

[marshall.boos]

Interesting stuff! Nice to know

[javerial]

Good point on the MSDS sheets av8r. I knew about their existence from work but never thought to go look up my favorite gun solvents. I am going to print the sheet for #9 and show it to my Uncle whom picked on me mercilessly when he noticed me wearing gloves while cleaning my firearms.

Here's a link to the MSDS sheets for Hoppe's products. The other outfits should all have them on their webpages as well.

[Sprout47]

Originally Posted by javerial

Good point on the MSDS sheets av8r. I knew about their existence from work but never thought to go look up my favorite gun solvents. I am going to print the sheet for #9 and show it to my Uncle whom picked on me mercilessly when he noticed me wearing gloves while cleaning my firearms.

Here's a link to the MSDS sheets for Hoppe's products. The other outfits should all have them on their webpages as well.

Agreed, not to sound like a safety Nazi but I was recently made aware of my carelessness (a little dermatits on my hand as a result of not using gloves when using solvents/paints/paint removers while working on my firearms...

While that is not a big deal, just thinking about the things that don't produce a visual warning that you should better equip one self made me a little more cautious. I now use a 3M respirator, solvent safe gloves and eye protection (which if anyone else ever caught a back blast from GunScrubber in the eye before can appreciate those lol).

Better safe than sorry

[GreytSilly]

Originally Posted by Sprout47

I now use a 3M respirator,

Better safe than sorry

I don't think your respirator is going to help you much unless you put a vapor canister on it. We use 3M respirators at work and attend a fit test/information class once a year. A standard (pink) HEPA filter is good for fumes and dust but won't stop organic vapors. You need a canister for vapor, not just the fiber filter. Your post didn't say what filter you have on the 3M, maybe you are already using the vapor canister?

[Sprout47]

Originally Posted by GreytSilly

I don't think your respirator is going to help you much unless you put a vapor canister on it. We use 3M respirators at work and attend a fit test/information class once a year. A standard (pink) HEPA filter is good for fumes and dust but won't stop organic vapors. You need a canister for vapor, not just the fiber filter. Your post didn't say what filter you have on the 3M, maybe you are already using the vapor canister?

Yes, Organic Vapor cartridges. 3M? Organic Vapor Cartridge 6001 60/Case

For petroleum based vapors. Since using them I have noticed quite a difference (I used to just use the cheap rubber band around the head variety). Don't even smell anything when using strippers/paints/thinners/solvents.

[javerial]

I make a point of opening the windows and running an exhaust fan when I clean my guns. We don't have a separate garage and the GF can't stand the smell of #9 (not that I blame her, it isn't real nice) so I wind up doing this even in the winter months.

Wish I had a way to clean them outdoors without the neighbors being able to see but that isn't in the cards when you live in the suburbs. More's the pity.

[Sprout47]

Originally Posted by javerial

I make a point of opening the windows and running an exhaust fan when I clean my guns. We don't have a separate garage and the GF can't stand the smell of #9 (not that I blame her, it isn't real nice) so I wind up doing this even in the winter months.

Wish I had a way to clean them outdoors without the neighbors being able to see but that isn't in the cards when you live in the suburbs. More's the pity.

Ya, funny how everyone get's all nervous when a man is sitting on his own porch in his underwear field stripping his AK... What's this world coming to?

[GreytSilly]

Originally Posted by javerial

the GF can't stand the smell of #9 (not that I blame her, it isn't real nice)

Try Hoppe's Semi-Auto cleaner. Comes in a bottle like #9 but doesn't have that obnoxious odor. It's all I ever clean with, I never use the sprays or #9.

[Long_Beard]

Originally Posted by javerial

Good point on the MSDS sheets av8r. I knew about their existence from work but never thought to go look up my favorite gun solvents. I am going to print the sheet for #9 and show it to my Uncle whom picked on me mercilessly when he noticed me wearing gloves while cleaning my firearms...

Make sure to use nitrile gloves. They provide protection against most organic solvents. Nitrile gloves are also less likely to cause allergic reactions. Common latex gloves do absolutely nothing except keep your hands from getting dirty. Organic solvents will leach right through latex.

[javerial]

Hmm, thanks for the recommendation Grey. I'll check that out the next time I visit the gun shop.

Long_Bread, I'm already using nitrile gloves. I can't stand the smell of latex and wouldn't trust it not to fall apart under such abuse. I like the CVS store brand gloves the best. They are the cheapest I've seen and one of the few brands that I've found that aren't powdered.

[darkvibe]

I tired nitrile gloves but they always last about 2 minutes before they get pinched somewhere and have a hole in them.

[Long_Beard]

Originally Posted by javerial

Long_Bread, I'm already using nitrile gloves. I can't stand the smell of latex and wouldn't trust it not to fall apart under such abuse. I like the CVS store brand gloves the best. They are the cheapest I've seen and one of the few brands that I've found that aren't powdered.

Didn't mean to imply that you weren't already using them. After years of handling solvents, just wanted to give a pointer to anyone who was unaware. For what it's worth, the yellow "dish washing" style of gloves are also latex. A lot of people get misled because they seem heavy duty, but they offer no protection from solvents.

I tired nitrile gloves but they always last about 2 minutes before they get pinched somewhere and have a hole in them.

Some brands are better than others. We use Kimberly Clark brand purple nitrile gloves at work, and they are very durable. The company tried to cut costs once and bought a cheaper brand, but we had results much like yours.

[darkvibe]

I bought mine at Harbor Freight if that tells you anything about the quality.

[javerial]

Latex really shouldn't be used for anything more substantial than water or blood. I don't even like it for that role because of the smell but it's better than nothing if you have to clean up blood or other bodily fluids.

I've noticed the pinching tendency of nitrile gloves too. It seemed to be a big problem for me when I was wearing gloves for the takedown process, not so much for the cleaning process. Nowadays I do the takedown before I put gloves on.

Do you keep gloves on when you oil your firearms or only when you are working with the solvent? I find it hard to control where the oil goes when I'm wearing gloves. Wind up with it everywhere except on the wear surfaces where it's needed.

[Vergeltung]

Originally Posted by Sprout47

What about safety
I am assuming that some chemicals while cheaper and better may not be so good using in a non-intended way

seriously.

the cleaning stuff is hardly the expensive end of the hobby anyways...

[FP1201]

Uncle Sam STILL says CLP is best when used in the proper application & climate.
Remington Action Cleaner is good stuff, lots of carb cleaners are aerosol Laquer thinner and clean the hell out of everything, but you'd better be careful of plastics, optics, and furniture.
CLP or LSA
Rem-Oil (w/ teflon)
Tetra Grease & oils
Dry Film Lubricant
Most of the lubes available today are high quality, teflon & synthetics are good combinations...., but folks will still experiment and swear by whatever they test. Application is the best specification: you wouldn't soak a gun in oil then play in the sand, likewise a dry film (moly) in water will cause rust.

[Pathfinder]

Originally Posted by TradersBASE

Lame but I had to do it.
Thanks for the info guys.

I knew this would happen.....lol