Holdup at Palms Internet Cafe

**real3175** · 07-17-2012, 01:55 PM

Saw this video and was curious what y'all thought? I believe the armed citizen is careless. He appears to be calm as he fires at the assailants, but he fires at them while they are fleeing and without knowing whats beyond his targets. I'm all for using deadly force but others lives may have been at stake IMO. Not real educated on the laws down there so all this appears to be legal. The assailants may be firing at him while they flee as well...hard to tell from the videos.

Charges unlikely against man who shot robbers | Gainesville.com

**guygus3516** · 07-17-2012, 02:01 PM

not too good a shot

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 02:14 PM

That guy's a hero.

**stryker.82nd** · 07-17-2012, 02:29 PM

well better calm while shotting at "armed" suspects than out of control....

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 02:44 PM

More info...

Officials: Patron fires on armed robbers at Internet cafe | Gainesville.com

One of the perps talks with the local news reporter - said the gun he used in the botched robbery was non-functioning and unloaded. Dumb criminals.

I think the guy with the legal CCW was 100% justified and wasn't firing wildly - it's obvious he's had some training... got off maybe 5 rounds. Thankfully no one (aside from Dumb and Dumber) got hurt.

At least one of the robbers (both just 19 yrs old) takes a conciliatory tone...

Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.

"I feel horrible. It doesn't feel good. It makes you think about life's decisions, and how you should live your life," Henderson said in an interview with the Star-Banner at the jail on Saturday afternoon.

...

"The gun was broken and rusty and wasn't loaded. Nobody was going to get hurt," he said, standing with crutches.

Too bad for Mr. Henderson... he's facing a mandatory 10 year minimum for his crime under Florida's 10/20/life sentencing laws. Have fun in prison dickhead!

**ChrisWNY** · 07-17-2012, 02:47 PM

It looks like some glass shattered near the front of the cafe, thought it may have been the thugs that broke glass or a window. When the old guy fired a shot out the door toward the road, that may have crossed the line, especially since bystanders could have been struck and killed. However, firing at the thugs while they were still in the cafe is probably within the boundaries of the law as one could claim the threat was not dispatched until both guys were completely out of the cafe.

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisWNY

It looks like some glass shattered near the front of the cafe, thought it may have been the thugs that broke glass or a window. When the old guy fired a shot out the door toward the road, that may have crossed the line, especially since bystanders could have been struck and killed. However, firing at the thugs while they were still in the cafe is probably within the boundaries of the law as one could claim the threat was not dispatched until both guys were completely out of the cafe.

Played it back several times and I didn't see any glass shattering.

But either a bystander outside getting stuck or 30 people potentially being executed as living witnesses... take your pick.

Since both kids were black - wonder when Reverend Al will barge into town to scream racism against ol' whitey shooting unarmed (gun was unloaded/broken) teenagers?

**ChrisWNY** · 07-17-2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by nessman

Played it back several times and I didn't see any glass shattering.

But either a bystander outside getting stuck or 30 people potentially being executed as living witnesses... take your pick.

...

The article mentioned some computer monitors being smashed out but what I saw on the camera near the end of the video likely had nothing to do with it. Some debris appears to be spraying out from somewhere near the end of the video. Not important though, just captured my curiosity, that's all.

Once the thugs were in the process of fleeing the cafe, the potential for anyone being executed inside the cafe (by the thugs) was virtually null and void. It's very fortunate for the patron (Williams) that a bystander wasn't caught in the crossfire. FL would have surely filed charges had that been the case.

I give the guy credit though, his actions dispatched the threat successfully, but I'm not so sure pulling the trigger with the suspects on the run was a good common-sense strategy. When someone is running away, they're really no longer a threat; so why continue shooting? At that point you become judge, jury, and executioner.

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 03:57 PM

I dunno... why don't we issue police officers one-bullet capacity guns so no one gets caught in the cross fire after the perp's been hit once?

Why even Monday morning quarterback this guy's actions? It was obvious from the video he had a clear line of sight between him and his intended targets and his actions were controlled and deliberate. A textbook defensive shooting if you ask me.

There's always going to be the risk of collateral damage even under the best scenarios.

**bockerSV** · 07-17-2012, 03:57 PM

Meh, he gets one attaboy in my eyes.

**ChrisWNY** · 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by nessman

I dunno... why don't we issue police officers one-bullet capacity guns so no one gets caught in the cross fire after the perp's been hit once?

Why even Monday morning quarterback this guy's actions? It was obvious from the video he had a clear line of sight between him and his intended targets and his actions were controlled and deliberate. A textbook defensive shooting if you ask me.

There's always going to be the risk of collateral damage even under the best scenarios.

I don't believe a LEO would've acted in the same manner. Police would have ordered them to drop the weapons. If the thugs did not comply and attempted to flee with said weapons in their hands, police would be well within their bounds to open up fire as those thugs are a danger to society running around with bats and guns outside the cafe. Civilians can certainly act in self-defense or in the defense of others, but shooting someone who is fleeing, weapon or no weapon, can get a civilian into some serious trouble. I agree that the outcome could not have been better. The thugs will be spending time in prison and the good guy should not be the one penalized. Not Monday QB'ing anything, I thought I was pointing out the obvious...that this particular patron falls well short of a poster boy for CC.

**DannyDifalco** · 07-17-2012, 04:13 PM

He stopped the threat.
Noone was hurt, except the bad guys.
Whats the problem?

**Bill** · 07-17-2012, 04:21 PM

I think he did AWESOME He made up his mind not to be a victim, acted on it and carried through, bravo. The shot at the perp outside the door was not at his back, lucky fellers his aim wasn't better.

**Baby Kaboomer** · 07-17-2012, 05:48 PM

I like this quote from one of the meatheads:

"I never expected anyone to be armed.”

Newsflash for thugs: It's the old guys you have to watch out for! And be grateful he wasn't carrying a 45.

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisWNY

I don't believe a LEO would've acted in the same manner. Police would have ordered them to drop the weapons. If the thugs did not comply and attempted to flee with said weapons in their hands, police would be well within their bounds to open up fire as those thugs are a danger to society running around with bats and guns outside the cafe. Civilians can certainly act in self-defense or in the defense of others, but shooting someone who is fleeing, weapon or no weapon, can get a civilian into some serious trouble. I agree that the outcome could not have been better. The thugs will be spending time in prison and the good guy should not be the one penalized. Not Monday QB'ing anything, I thought I was pointing out the obvious...that this particular patron falls well short of a poster boy for CC.

Watch the video... old guy gets up, draws, closes in on target when target wasn't looking, target turns towards old guy, points gun at old guy, old guy starts firing. I'm sure most LEO's would have dropped the guy without warning either. 15 seconds transpired between the time the bad guys walked in the door and the old guy started firing. Even seasoned cops need a few seconds to process what's going on before deciding a course of action.

That the bad guys started fleeing once the old guy started firing, and he continued to fire to ensure the threat was eliminated. Bad guys can still turn around and return fire.

**nessman** · 07-17-2012, 06:40 PM

I posted this story to my Facebook page - and all my libtard friends are lambasting the old guy for the "threat" he posed to everyone else in the cafe. Idiots... my friends... but they're still idiots. LOL!

**Suby** · 07-18-2012, 10:28 AM

that'll do

**944turbo** · 07-18-2012, 11:01 AM

:49 seconds is awesome, as Moe & Curly are both trying to get out the door at the same time.

**dsdmmat** · 07-18-2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by nessman

Watch the video... old guy gets up, draws, closes in on target when target wasn't looking, target turns towards old guy, points gun at old guy, old guy starts firing. I'm sure most LEO's would have dropped the guy without warning either. 15 seconds transpired between the time the bad guys walked in the door and the old guy started firing. Even seasoned cops need a few seconds to process what's going on before deciding a course of action.

That the bad guys started fleeing once the old guy started firing, and he continued to fire to ensure the threat was eliminated. Bad guys can still turn around and return fire.

This guy did it right, close the distance, engage the enemy, destroy their will to fight, continue the attack until the threat has been eliminated or destroyed. The threat was not eliminated even as they were exiting the door, the outer walls could have been used by the attackers as a defensive and regrouping position, his last shot out the door ensured they would not hang out just beyond the door, regroup and return to finish the job.

**Camper4lyfe** · 07-18-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by nessman

Why even Monday morning quarterback this guy's actions? It was obvious from the video he had a clear line of sight between him and his intended targets and his actions were controlled and deliberate. A textbook defensive shooting if you ask me.

It's good to Monday morning quarterback, especially when there's video. Ask yourself: what did he do right? What did he do wrong? What would I do in that situation? What can I learn from this that I can use later if I'm in a similar situation?

**Ragnar Danneskjold** · 07-18-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisWNY

...Once the thugs were in the process of fleeing the cafe, the potential for anyone being executed inside the cafe (by the thugs) was virtually null and void. It's very fortunate for the patron (Williams) that a bystander wasn't caught in the crossfire. FL would have surely filed charges had that been the case... ...When someone is running away, they're really no longer a threat; so why continue shooting? At that point you become judge, jury, and executioner.

The threat does not stop when they exit the door. There is no "safe zone" that they can't re-enter or fire into from outside. Drive-by shootings would not exist if that were the case.

I'd feel terrible if I ceased fire after they crossed the threshold, they took note of my not shooting anymore, and turned around to fire a shot or two or 30 back into the building, killing innocent civilians.

Bravo to that man.

**BIG flash** · 07-18-2012, 01:15 PM

Bravo to that man is right.

**nydave** · 07-18-2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Camper4lyfe

It's good to Monday morning quarterback, especially when there's video. Ask yourself: what did he do right? What did he do wrong? What would I do in that situation? What can I learn from this that I can use later if I'm in a similar situation?

What did I learn... Stop carrying my .380 and start carrying my .45.

Well done Sir.

**ScotchMan** · 07-18-2012, 03:36 PM

I think the guy did very well, and agree it is clear he has training. He even keeps his gun pointed "down range" while he scans. He did shoot one-handed when he didn't really need to though, kind of doing the punch-shot motion. Not sure what that was about.

I see both sides of the argument regarding his shot out the door at the fleeing bad guys. My take away is that I would probably not do that in THIS state, unless there was a very real threat present at that moment, not just the possibility of a threat later. Purely for legal reasons. I'm not sure I'd want to articulate my reasons for pulling the trigger that last time in court.

**cooden** · 07-18-2012, 04:48 PM

You guys do realize that these "Internet Cafes" are basically internet gambling spots right? Research internet cafes & check it out. These places have a lot of cash on hand, they are starting to become big targets for robbers.