Free CCW lecture at GCL in Rochester

[RochPersDef]

Date: Monday, August 18th
Time: 6:30 pm until we get kicked out
Location: Genesee Conservation League
1570 Old Penfield Rd
Rochester, NY 14624

On the heels of last Monday's lecture: A different, deeper look at carrying and the laws that we all have to go by.

It's everyone's favorite subject - carrying a handgun and the laws, actions, and the bucketful of questions that go with it!!! If you carry a handgun, then you should learn all you can about the laws, regulations, attitude, restrictions, and other details that govern as well as allow you to carry. There are a lot of myths and misunderstood facts. Why not come and listen so that you can know what is right, what is the law, and what is what someone just made up?

For instance: Did you know that there is no law in New York that requires you to notify an officer that you are in possession of a firearm? We'll discuss when it would be a good idea to inform them.

Were you aware that:

Some of the topics that will be covered include:

Why concealed carry is allowed and important.
Where you can or cannot carry.
How to interact with law enforcement.
How you should act as a legal gun owner and carrier
What gun size/type would be best to carry.
Advantages and disadvantages to differing methods of carry.
What you should do when you are in a situation.
What your legal rights and responsibilities are when you are carrying.

And more

If you have questions about carrying and what you can do, should do, or should not do,
you need to attend !!!!

This seminar is open to the public

There is NO FEE to attend this lecture, but you must pre-register to reserve your seat

To register for this highly informative seminar:
Contact Rochester Personal Defense:
By phone: 585-749-7650.
Email: rochpersdef@rochester.rr.com
On the web at: www.safeinrochester.com

[Rich]

Must you currently have a pistol permit to attend?

[jaywmustang]

I wish i lived closer.

[RochPersDef]

No permit required. The class is all lecture based.

[mikeCentola]

Hmm I might be able to make this one!

[Jeff]

I might be able to make it too.

Dave, do you cover the legalities of posted places in NY state? I mean like if a movie theater or mall has some obscure list of rules posted somewhere that says no weapons on it.

I've always wondered what legal bearing those hold.

[RochPersDef]

I'll answer that now, although it may be useful for this question to come up also...lol

I do cover that in part of the lecture, but feel free to have me expand a bit if there is time and the need.

Any OWNER or MANAGER of a premises can post a sign excluding those that carry any kind of weaponry. It's their right as the person in control of the area. Bear in mind that an employee cannot do it, it has to be the manager or owner.

Now, are you breaking the law? NO. If you enter a place that is posted 'No Weapons' or anything similar, all you are risking (if found out) is expulsion from the place. The police cannot even touch you, restrain you, or anything to either detain you or eject you. There is no crime committed. Now, if someone (manager, security, owner) asks you to leave and you refuse, you are now Trespassing. This could range from a violation to an A Misdemeanor. Not good.

I would advise this: Carry as you see fit. If you enter a place that is barred from CCW'ers by anything other than a law, accept that ther may be consequences. Does it happen where people legally carry into 'forbidden places'? I would not doubt it. Would I advise it? Officially, you have to do as the property controller requests. If you do not, then you should leave quietly.

Now...here's a project: When you are out, all of you, look around and note which places have signage prohibiting weapons. be sure to READ THE SIGN CAREFULLY as you may miss something such as: "Persons licensed in NY State and in possession of a valid license are not included in the above"

That means if there is a sign that says no firearms, and you read that clause below it, you, as the legal possessor of the fiream are OK. Greece Ridge Mall has such a sign. Look it over next time you go there, it's right at the entrance. The movie theater, however, is narrow minded enough to post a no weapons sign without any exemptions. I choose no to go there because of that.

[ddan24]

so schools, courthouses, and libraries can only ask you to leave? Would those be any different then the mall posting a sign?

[RochPersDef]

No. I said: "If you enter a place that is barred from CCW'ers by anything other than a law, accept that there may be consequences"

Schools are off limits from a federal law standpoint, Courthouses are off limits too. Libraries depend on the controlling entity and as they wish. They may or may not be.

[Jeff]

Hmm. Pretty much as I thought. No real legal bearing. Makes sense. A store manager could put a sign up for anything. No chewing gum! That doesn't make anything about it illegal but the store can tell you to leave.

I've never actually read the signs at the malls around here. Good to hear they exempt CCW permit holders at the greece mall. I did see the no weapons sign at regal cinema. Of course it was for a pre-release preview and there was a guy at the door with a metal detector wand looking for video cameras Regal has that sign posted on their cinemas in multiple states.

If I were to hypothetically go to a store and there was a no guns sign that I actually noticed I would walk right by. If for some reason the store found out and either called the cops or asked me to leave I would just quietly say "I'm sorry, I didn't know, I'll leave now" and go somewhere else. Then I would write an email to their corporate office telling them why I'm taking my $$$ to their competitors. ;D

[RochPersDef]

That's the idea. If you did not know, then you did not know. BUT, if you get asked to leave, don't make a scene, don't profess anything. Just leave. And then, never go back. Make sure your friends and colleagues know about it as well.


How about we start a list of places. In your travels, note what you see and really read the sign (even read the sign on the middle column in the county office building?)

Then, post it here.

[Jeff]

that's a good idea. We should have a sticky with a list of posted businesses.

[RochPersDef]

I like it. Now remember, it has to be a no exception exclusion of LEGAL weapons.


Who wants to start?

I already named the movie theater at Greece Ridge mall

[RonLauinger]

Hey Dave, Not sure if it is the same here in NY, but when I was in Michigan, I entered Schools, Colleges, hospitals
as well as other places that were ''No Pistol' places, however, in Michigan I was able to obtain written permission to
carry a pistol either from the Dean, owners, presidents and other decision makers. This was always a thing that got in
our way when doing protective details, but with alittle advanced scouting, we were able too,,,

Is it the same here?

[Jeff]

i was just reading that section of the laws the other day...

criminal posession of a weapon in the fourth degree

(3) He or she knowingly has in his or her possession a rifle, shotgun
or firearm in or upon a building or grounds, used for educational
purposes, of any school, college or university, except the forestry
lands, wherever located, owned and maintained by the State University of
New York college of environmental science and forestry, or upon a school
bus as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and
traffic law, without the written authorization of such educational
institution

I don't know anything about federal laws. I've never seen anything in the NY laws about hospitals being off limits.

[RochPersDef]

You would be restricted from carrying in a restricted part of the hospital. The "R" Wing for example. i do not remember if it was posted, but I will find out.

Ron: No luck here in NY. There is a provision in the Federal No Weapons on school grounds law that allows the individual school to grant permission. I do not have any data as to if a school or educational facility here in NY has done so.

[ddan24]

I work at Strong/Highland and all of their offsites and i'm fairly certain you wouldn't want to carry any weapons into what you call "R" wing. At least here at Strong the inpatient psychiatric wing (a-riser floors 3 and up) you would not want to. Although I have never seen any signs saying you can't. I will check next time i'm over there, if it is, it's by the elevators. It's all locked down so someone has to buzz you in anyway. There are no signs anywhere else that I am aware of here at Strong/Highland and all of our offsites. Nor have I read or signed any policy dissallowing employees to carry.

[RochPersDef]

ddan:

I know a ton of employees at Strong/UR. They have all told me that there is a no weapons policy for employees on the property. Working or not at the time.

Kind of neat, one of us regular folk can carry into parts of the hospital (remember, any place used for educational purposes - hmm Eastman Dental School?) but an employee cannot - at all.

[ddan24]

I've never heard of this policy unless it is in some form of small print that references a policy that employees aren't given in hard copy when they are hired. I've worked at Strong since 2005.

[RochPersDef]

I'll get a copy. I was talking to one of the people I know there and they said it was on the website too.

I'll find out the address. Not that I want to prove you wrong, I just want to make sure you are not missing anything.

[Jeff]

I tried looking on their website. I found "10.10 - Firearms/Weapons" but can't access their policy manual because it's on their intranet site.

http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/smd/gm...alPolicies.cfm

Is Strong part of UofR therefore an educational campus?

[RochPersDef]

That's the 'Fellow' stuff. I got the .pdf, but the item number was not there.

[ddan24]

I've never heard of this, but here it is... I read what they gave me in its entirety and signed, but this was not included...

10.10 Firearms or Weapons

Firearms or other dangerous weapons are not permitted in Strong Memorial Hospital or the medical center complex except as required by law.

Description

1. Law enforcement officers and armored car couriers are required by law to carry firearms while in the performance of their duties. If, however, the firearm is not essential to the performance of their duty, they will be encouraged to use locked boxes provided by the University Security Services in consideration of the sensitive nature of the hospital environment.

2. Special requests or waivers to this policy should be directed to the director of University Security Services at 275-3340.

3. Staff discovering a firearm or weapon should notify security immediately for appropriate action and intervention. Staff should not handle or take possession of a firearm. Should a firearm be discovered, staff should secure the area until security arrives.

References
Security Services Policy and Operations Manuals University of Rochester Faculty Handbook, Statement on Rights and Standards, Standards of Conduct

10.10 History

4/89 Drafted by Legal Affairs and Risk Management; recommended for approval by Security Services.
7/89 Reviewed and recommended for approval by Policy Development Group.
9/89 Reviewed and recommended for approval by EHC Policy and Procedure Committee with addition of #3.
10/89 Reviewed and approved by Executive Hospital Committee.
4/92 Reviewed by Security Services.
10/98 Updated by L. McTarnaghan and approved by Clinical Council
9/02 Reviewed by Security Services
10/02 Reviewed and approved by Policy Management Team
5/05 Reviewed and updated by Security
5/05 Approved by Policy Management Team

[ddan24]

Is Strong part of UofR therefore an educational campus?

Strong is the "University of Rochester Medical Center" a.k.a. "URMC" and would be considered an educational campus, but it's a private (not a State of NY) school. Would this fall under "they can ask you to leave, but by law you are allowed to carry in the campus as long as they don't ask you to leave" rule?

[Jeff]

No, NYS law said any building or grounds used for education or however they word it. It applies to private universities just the same as public as far as I understand it.

edit: a building or grounds, used for educational purposes, of any school, college or university