My first time pulled over while carrying...

[<JP>]

Coming back from the grocery store...State Trooper pulled a quick U-turn, obviously saw something he didn't like. Turns out my inspection was overdue (move your GPS so you can see the sticker, JP!).

Our county judge made it clear that we need to inform LE when pulled over, but that's something I planned to do anyway. Right after I said "hello, trooper" and he asked for my license and registration, I said, "Just so you know, I am carrying a legal firearm on my right hip." He didn't even bat an eye. He asked me where I worked, and where I lived. Then he ran my paperwork, returned to my car, and told me to have a nice day and stay safe.

It was a very pleasant exchange all around. I'm sure it didn't hurt that I was up front with him about carrying. I obviously wasn't out to make any trouble.

Just thought I'd share a good experience with LE!

[Phlyan Pan]

During our permit class, the subject came up and the instructors agreed that unless it was likely to be discovered for some reason, discretion was their preferred course of action.

[darkvibe]

Originally Posted by Phlyan Pan

During our permit class, the subject came up and the instructors agreed that unless it was likely to be discovered for some reason, discretion was their preferred course of action.

Broome is different though. When you upgrade/get a full permit the judge tells you that you have to declare if you get pulled over.

[<JP>]

Originally Posted by darkvibe

Broome is different though. When you upgrade/get a full permit the judge tells you that you have to declare if you get pulled over.

Exactly...thus the first sentence of my second paragraph.

And as I said, no matter what the judge said, or what state I'm in, I will always tell the officer. If I were in his position, that's something I'd appreciate knowing up front.

[javerial]

Glad it went ok for you.

Did he write you up for the inspection sticker or just tell you to get it taken care of?

[<JP>]

No ticket, warning, etc... just "have a nice day and stay safe".

Again, I'm guessing that after chatting me up for a bit, seeing I was in my neighborhood, asking what I did for a living, seeing that I actually didn't know about the sticker, and realizing I was a good guy not looking for trouble, he cut me a break.

[RochPersDef]

Nice to know you had one of the good guys JP...

I always tell people to use their judgement when informing an LEO (Unless it is mandatory) of when you are carrying. Offering that info right up front, as if you are trying to smack them int he face with the fact you have a firearm and are carrying legally can bite you as well. Tact, timing, and the right presentation will work best.

I'd rather keep quiet when I run across the "anti -gun" LEO. I know a lot that feel strongly that citizens have no reason to carry guns- that's their job........

[waldershrek]

Glad it went ok for you. Most cops are decent about it.

[TvTrader]

What about people from other counties passing through Broome?
My Brother in-law lives in Broome county and I am thinking about going to the rang with him.
If you live in the area you may know about declaring your CCW....
What about other counties?

[javerial]

Originally Posted by TvTrader

What about people from other counties passing through Broome?

The requirement comes from our Judge. If your permit wasn't signed by our Judge then the requirement doesn't apply to you. You would still want to use common sense and notify the LEO if you think he's about to discover it on his own though.

[Phlyan Pan]

This is what is totally wrong with the NY system of CCW permits. Here you have a judge making up a rule that doesn't exist anywhere else in the state. Instead of 1 standard for everyone there are 50 some odd different ones. It's insane.

Plus, a judges purpose within the constitution is to rule on the application of law to a situation....not make up law because he feels like it. These judges are performing a function that I don't believe they have any legal authority to do.

/ soapbox.

[javerial]

Judges create law all the time. It's called case law. The case law in NYS says that the Judge can impose administrative restrictions on your license. They don't carry the weight of criminal law but if you violate them the Judge can and most likely will revoke your permit.

The only way to change this is in Albany but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a shall-issue law to come out of Albany, at least until NYC secedes.

[Temporaryscars]

What happens if you're from one county and you're traveling to another without knowing the rule of disclosure?

[javerial]

Originally Posted by Temporaryscars

What happens if you're from one county and you're traveling to another without knowing the rule of disclosure?

It's not a county rule or law. It's an administrative rule imposed on pistol permits signed by Judge Cawley of Broome County. If your pistol permit was signed by him then the assumption is that you have to follow that rule whenever you are carrying under his permit.

If your pistol permit was signed by a different Judge then the rule doesn't apply to you.

Edit: And the way you know is to research the laws of the locality that you intend on visiting. Most counties and cities in NYS have their codes posted online. Since we don't have a statewide preemption law it's a good idea to research these codes before traveling somewhere new. Remember that it's your responsibility to obey the local laws when carrying a firearm.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by javerial

The only way to change this is in Albany but I'm not holding my breath waiting for a shall-issue law to come out of Albany, at least until NYC secedes.

NYC can't secede...it would be like pulling a baby pig off it's mother's teat....it would wither and die...not necessarily a bad thing.

[Temporaryscars]

Originally Posted by javerial

It's not a county rule or law. It's an administrative rule imposed on pistol permits signed by Judge Cawley of Broome County. If your pistol permit was signed by him then the assumption is that you have to follow that rule whenever you are carrying under his permit.

If your pistol permit was signed by a different Judge then the rule doesn't apply to you.

Edit: And the way you know is to research the laws of the locality that you intend on visiting. Most counties and cities in NYS have their codes posted online. Since we don't have a statewide preemption law it's a good idea to research these codes before traveling somewhere new. Remember that it's your responsibility to obey the local laws when carrying a firearm.

That makes sense. I guess I don't have to worry much since I don't have a permit to even own a handgun, but hey, maybe someday! If I did carry, I would always let a cop know. It's pretty common sense.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by javerial

It's not a county rule or law. It's an administrative rule imposed on pistol permits signed by Judge Cawley of Broome County

Are these rules actually posted somewhere? I thought this was all stuff that he'd like to see done, but that it wasn't formally presented anywhere.

My permit was signed my Matthews in 1990. Can I disregard Cawley's rules? (devil's advocate)

[javerial]

Cawley can still revoke your permit even if it was signed by the previous Judge, so I would say that you ignore his rules at your own peril.

As to whether or not it's been presented anywhere, I honestly don't know. I do know that the guy who was authorized by Cawley to teach the upgrade class told me that I have to inform when carrying under his permit. That's good enough for me. I don't see any reason to split hairs or over analyze it.

Besides, my plan is to make it a big fat moot point by not getting pulled over. This is the first time I've had a clean drivers license since I turned 18 and I'd like to keep it that way

[Temporaryscars]

I sort of feel like disclosing the rifle in my trunk a week back actually helped get me out of a ticket. I think the cop appreciated the fact that I told him...not to mention we were parked in my driveway.

[av8r]

Originally Posted by javerial

Cawley can still revoke your permit even if it was signed by the previous Judge, so I would say that you ignore his rules at your own peril.

As to whether or not it's been presented anywhere, I honestly don't know. I do know that the guy who was authorized by Cawley to teach the upgrade class told me that I have to inform when carrying under his permit. That's good enough for me. I don't see any reason to split hairs or over analyze it.

Besides, my plan is to make it a big fat moot point by not getting pulled over. This is the first time I've had a clean drivers license since I turned 18 and I'd like to keep it that way

I realize Cawley is the guy now...My question is due to you stating that these were "rules" that he has created. In my RPD class we were told that it was a good idea to disclose if interacting with a LEO, but not that it was a rule. Dave Jenkins recently posted that he'd recommend staying silent if it were him...



My first time pulled over while carrying...
<snip>
"I always tell people to use their judgement when informing an LEO (Unless it is mandatory) of when you are carrying. Offering that info right up front, as if you are trying to smack them int he face with the fact you have a firearm and are carrying legally can bite you as well. Tact, timing, and the right presentation will work best.

I'd rather keep quiet when I run across the "anti -gun" LEO. I know a lot that feel strongly that citizens have no reason to carry guns- that's their job........"

Point is...the information could be confusing for someone. If Cawley has rules, they ought to be posted for folks to see, read, understand and follow. If these are not rules and just suggestions than that's fine, but I think there is a difference.

[javerial]

Originally Posted by av8r

I realize Cawley is the guy now...My question is due to you stating that these were "rules" that he has created. In my RPD class we were told that it was a good idea to disclose if interacting with a LEO, but not that it was a rule. Dave Jenkins recently posted that he'd recommend staying silent if it were him...

Not if you have a Broome permit and have an interaction with law enforcement in Broome County.

Originally Posted by av8r

Point is...the information could be confusing for someone. If Cawley has rules, they ought to be posted for folks to see, read, understand and follow. If these are not rules and just suggestions than that's fine, but I think there is a difference.

I don't see what's so confusing about it. If you have an interaction with law enforcement while carrying on Cawley's permit you have to notify them. Simple as that. I wouldn't split hairs on "suggestions" vs. "rules". If it comes from the guy who can revoke my permit with the stroke of a pen I'm going to consider it a rule. If he tells me that I have to do ten jumping jacks and build a snowman before leaving my house while carrying that's his prerogative under the established NYS case law.

If you don't like the system write to Assemblywoman Lupardo and Senator Libous and ask them to change it.

[RochPersDef]

Actually, I meant that I would stay silent unless it was necessary to say anything. If you decide to tell every cop you meet that you have a gun, then the odds are that you may run across a cop that believes citizens don't have the need to carry and should not. Why risk the attitude when just being discreet would have worked in the first place.

I'll echo it again, in general, just keep it to yourself until you have to reveal it.

Unless you're a Broome Permit holder.

[Temporaryscars]

Originally Posted by RochPersDef

Actually, I meant that I would stay silent unless it was necessary to say anything. If you decide to tell every cop you meet that you have a gun, then the odds are that you may run across a cop that believes citizens don't have the need to carry and should not. Why risk the attitude when just being discreet would have worked in the first place.

I'll echo it again, in general, just keep it to yourself until you have to reveal it.

Unless you're a Broome Permit holder.

What do you qualify as "having to reveal it." If they ask you if you're carrying?

[RochPersDef]

If an LEO asks, then yes, you have to tell them

[javerial]

Or if you think they are about to discover it on their own for whatever reason. Better to tell them yourself than to meet the concrete and/or business end of a Glock.